Okay there is this one thing that always has me wondering. We all know the debates about overtraining and negative effects on the goal to build muscle.

And we all know it's also different for every person how much is "too much", depending on their regenerative abilities and type of training, goals etc.

 

Now i keep coming across people suggesting a maximum of 20 to 25 sets per gym session and then you have to get the heck out of the gym. Because everything past that would be just tearing your muscle down too much, getting you into a catabolic state etc...

 

The question here is.. how on earth would you even achieve to train every bodypart for growth orderly with hypertrophy ranges of about 4x10 per exercise already. and 3-4 exercises per bodypart?

 

Seen like that i would need to leave the gym already after having done nothing else but trained my triceps with 4 exercises each worth 4 sets with 10 reps.

i could smuggle 1 more exercise in maybe for my shoulders but just doing 1x10 on shoulders.. in that case i could directly spare myself doing it as it's not worth much.

 

If you not only wish to become 'fitter' but to actually build muscle on all bodyparts, i can't really see how you'd fit everything in with only 20 sets per gym day.. including also rest days, and then the fact that you normally should hit every musc legroup twice per week if you wish to grow it.

 

I mostly split into a triceps,chest,traps day and a biceps, upper back, lower back, legs day. and repeat those 2 times per week. aka 4 days. (on the other days i rest or do a bit cvardio / bit calistenics). even without the cardio / calis i could not do any of those 4 days with only 20 sets.

 

What's your ideas on this whole 20 sets max concept?

 

 

Okay there is this one thing that always has me wondering. We all know the debates about overtraining and negative effects on the goal to build muscle.

And we all know it's also different for every person how much is "too much", depending on their regenerative abilities and type of training, goals etc.

 

Now i keep coming across people suggesting a maximum of 20 to 25 sets per gym session and then you have to get the heck out of the gym. Because everything past that would be just tearing your muscle down too much, getting you into a catabolic state etc...

 

The question here is.. how on earth would you even achieve to train every bodypart for growth orderly with hypertrophy ranges of about 4x10 per exercise already. and 3-4 exercises per bodypart?

 

Seen like that i would need to leave the gym already after having done nothing else but trained my triceps with 4 exercises each worth 4 sets with 10 reps.

i could smuggle 1 more exercise in maybe for my shoulders but just doing 1x10 on shoulders.. in that case i could directly spare myself doing it as it's not worth much.

 

If you not only wish to become 'fitter' but to actually build muscle on all bodyparts, i can't really see how you'd fit everything in with only 20 sets per gym day.. including also rest days, and then the fact that you normally should hit every musc legroup twice per week if you wish to grow it.

 

I mostly split into a triceps,chest,traps day and a biceps, upper back, lower back, legs day. and repeat those 2 times per week. aka 4 days. (on the other days i rest or do a bit cvardio / bit calistenics). even without the cardio / calis i could not do any of those 4 days with only 20 sets.

 

What's your ideas on this whole 20 sets max concept?

 

 

Okay there is this one thing that always has me wondering. We all know the debates about overtraining and negative effects on the goal to build muscle.

And we all know it's also different for every person how much is "too much", depending on their regenerative abilities and type of training, goals etc.

 

Now i keep coming across people suggesting a maximum of 20 to 25 sets per gym session and then you have to get the heck out of the gym. Because everything past that would be just tearing your muscle down too much, getting you into a catabolic state etc...

 

The question here is.. how on earth would you even achieve to train every bodypart for growth orderly with hypertrophy ranges of about 4x10 per exercise already. and 3-4 exercises per bodypart?

 

Seen like that i would need to leave the gym already after having done nothing else but trained my triceps with 4 exercises each worth 4 sets with 10 reps.

i could smuggle 1 more exercise in maybe for my shoulders but just doing 1x10 on shoulders.. in that case i could directly spare myself doing it as it's not worth much.

 

If you not only wish to become 'fitter' but to actually build muscle on all bodyparts, i can't really see how you'd fit everything in with only 20 sets per gym day.. including also rest days, and then the fact that you normally should hit every musc legroup twice per week if you wish to grow it.

 

I mostly split into a triceps,chest,traps day and a biceps, upper back, lower back, legs day. and repeat those 2 times per week. aka 4 days. (on the other days i rest or do a bit cvardio / bit calistenics). even without the cardio / calis i could not do any of those 4 days with only 20 sets.

 

What's your ideas on this whole 20 sets max concept?

 

 

Okay there is this one thing that always has me wondering. We all know the debates about overtraining and negative effects on the goal to build muscle.

And we all know it's also different for every person how much is "too much", depending on their regenerative abilities and type of training, goals etc.

 

Now i keep coming across people suggesting a maximum of 20 to 25 sets per gym session and then you have to get the heck out of the gym. Because everything past that would be just tearing your muscle down too much, getting you into a catabolic state etc...

 

The question here is.. how on earth would you even achieve to train every bodypart for growth orderly with hypertrophy ranges of about 4x10 per exercise already. and 3-4 exercises per bodypart?

 

Seen like that i would need to leave the gym already after having done nothing else but trained my triceps with 4 exercises each worth 4 sets with 10 reps.

i could smuggle 1 more exercise in maybe for my shoulders but just doing 1x10 on shoulders.. in that case i could directly spare myself doing it as it's not worth much.

 

If you not only wish to become 'fitter' but to actually build muscle on all bodyparts, i can't really see how you'd fit everything in with only 20 sets per gym day.. including also rest days, and then the fact that you normally should hit every musc legroup twice per week if you wish to grow it.

 

I mostly split into a triceps,chest,traps day and a biceps, upper back, lower back, legs day. and repeat those 2 times per week. aka 4 days. (on the other days i rest or do a bit cvardio / bit calistenics). even without the cardio / calis i could not do any of those 4 days with only 20 sets.

 

What's your ideas on this whole 20 sets max concept?

 

 

Okay there is this one thing that always has me wondering. We all know the debates about overtraining and negative effects on the goal to build muscle.

And we all know it's also different for every person how much is "too much", depending on their regenerative abilities and type of training, goals etc.

 

Now i keep coming across people suggesting a maximum of 20 to 25 sets per gym session and then you have to get the heck out of the gym. Because everything past that would be just tearing your muscle down too much, getting you into a catabolic state etc...

 

The question here is.. how on earth would you even achieve to train every bodypart for growth orderly with hypertrophy ranges of about 4x10 per exercise already. and 3-4 exercises per bodypart?

 

Seen like that i would need to leave the gym already after having done nothing else but trained my triceps with 4 exercises each worth 4 sets with 10 reps.

i could smuggle 1 more exercise in maybe for my shoulders but just doing 1x10 on shoulders.. in that case i could directly spare myself doing it as it's not worth much.

 

If you not only wish to become 'fitter' but to actually build muscle on all bodyparts, i can't really see how you'd fit everything in with only 20 sets per gym day.. including also rest days, and then the fact that you normally should hit every musc legroup twice per week if you wish to grow it.

 

I mostly split into a triceps,chest,traps day and a biceps, upper back, lower back, legs day. and repeat those 2 times per week. aka 4 days. (on the other days i rest or do a bit cvardio / bit calistenics). even without the cardio / calis i could not do any of those 4 days with only 20 sets.

 

What's your ideas on this whole 20 sets max concept?

 

 

Thanks guys for your personal input on this!!!

 

I mean i get the "math" and all that, so the question was half rhetorical. As i wondered how one could even achieve 'growth' that way. Only doing compound exercises might of course be one way, as suggested by @whisper.

 

But as i said already in the original post, we all are different. For me, i think i am rather like John. I am violating that rule sooooo heavily lol. His 420 - 500 reps sound more like my range.

 

And i can do compound exercises plus isolation exercises, without feeling to fall apart. I keep strictly 2 days rest for each bodypart or at least with "direct impact" excercises.

 

On top of that my muscles need about 1-2 warmup sets already before i feel them being ready for stressing them fully.

 

Legs are even worse here i have to "warm up" my way into heavy weights by slowly going higher in weight with each set. It can take me up to 4x 10 already until they feel ready to squad or deadlift some heavy load. So with some additional 4x10 already 8 of those 20 sets would be taken by just one exercise.

 

I like to superset Squads with chinups. so there would my 20 sets be gone already and i would need to leave without having done the additional bodyparts. Plus just me personally.. i'd feel like i have done nothing - meaning not feeling like i depleted all the energy that i could have used.

 

 

If you do a setup like @adawg38 and @whisper have suggested, would you suggest just going higher in weights and doing less sets?

 

I think what i mostly was wondering is - isn't that contraproductive for the whole 'hypertrophy' range of 4x8-12 per exercise / and per bodypart 3-4 exercises, in order to 'build mass'?

Quote @JoeHurricane : "Doing heavier weight and less sets means will you more or less be setting yourself up for strength gains ahead of muscle gains. I'm not saying you won't build any muscle, just that the primary objective you will likely achieve will be stronger muscles, rather than bigger ones."

 

That was kinda what i was thinking. Thus i wondered a bit if that 20 sets regime would be good for "growth", or not rather for the CNS / strength.

 

 

Of course i would not just train differently because others say so, if it doesn't make sense to me, or if i can't feel it working. But we all are open to ideas, and sometimes also just curious if a certain thing that is being preached to you all over the place is a good thing or not, thus we ask others for their opinions or experience with that :)

 

Quote: ... being that if you are training body parts twice a week (or more), then you only need to do around 10 sets each workout for that particular muscle group.

 

yes and this is how i easily get to more than 20 sets per workout. Just like John i train about 4 bodyparts per workout. 10 sets per each which counts already 400 reps.

 

Thanks again guys for all your thoughts on this =)

 

Just to mix things up a little, here's my take on @JoeHurricane quote:

 

Yes volume will create hypertrophy but so will a heavier weight and less sets approach. Now here's why you should actually mix the two approaches:

• If you can control a heavier weight a create maximum tension and activation of the muscle, fewer sets with an increased working frequency will stimulate a great deal of hypertrophy as long as the intensity is as great as possible.
• A volume type of workout can have the ability to focus on slow twitch muscle fibres hypertrophy and slightly neglect fast twitch. Its important to train heavy and go to failure quickly, say for example 1 - 2 sets therefore you are getting maximal recruitment without compromising intensity and neglecting certain twitch fibres

Quote @JoeHurricane : "Doing heavier weight and less sets means will you more or less be setting yourself up for strength gains ahead of muscle gains. I'm not saying you won't build any muscle, just that the primary objective you will likely achieve will be stronger muscles, rather than bigger ones."

 

That was kinda what i was thinking. Thus i wondered a bit if that 20 sets regime would be good for "growth", or not rather for the CNS / strength.

 

 

Of course i would not just train differently because others say so, if it doesn't make sense to me, or if i can't feel it working. But we all are open to ideas, and sometimes also just curious if a certain thing that is being preached to you all over the place is a good thing or not, thus we ask others for their opinions or experience with that :)

 

Quote: ... being that if you are training body parts twice a week (or more), then you only need to do around 10 sets each workout for that particular muscle group.

 

yes and this is how i easily get to more than 20 sets per workout. Just like John i train about 4 bodyparts per workout. 10 sets per each which counts already 400 reps.

 

Thanks again guys for all your thoughts on this =)

 

Good points.

 

That's why pyramid styles of training can be good, because you are lifting heavy but also incorporating volume, do you agree?

 

Also, here's something to ponder...

 

Instead of focusing on using heavy weights to create maximum tension, you might be better off with light weight and higher volume.

 

Why? Because with lighter weight, you can utilise the tempo a lot easier, really focus on slow negatives and controlling the weight. This means that you are still activating the muscle and contracting the muscle just as much, if not more, and with lighter weight, you are more likely to use proper form to get the most out of your workout.

 

When using heavier weights, people tend to let their form waver and focus more on making sure the weight goes from point A to point B by all means necessary.

I agree with you here buddy. I do think it's very important to mix some heavy weight trainging in there once in a while too not just for strength but to make sure you are hitting those fast twitch fibers, tut is great but if it's too long then you tend to hit your slow twitch more. You can still hit those fast twitch with lighter weight but I prefer heavy.