Hi nation!

Last days a lot of you talking about being sick and bad, doing light workouts, deloading etc.

Because I'm not from weight lifting world I have a slightly different aproaches to trainings; of course there is principle of progresive loading, but every fourth week is "deloading", where volume and intensity are droped "dramaticly".

How do you do that in weight lifting routines, either when building mass, either train for pure strength and/or power?

Do you even do deload week regularly?

Do you just drop weight/sets/reps and keep routine workflow the same?

Do you do lightweight circuit training?

Anything else?

Thanks for your input!

BR, Gregor

I personally like to take rest days. I train every 2 days, so I always have a day rest inbetween. Sometimes I leave 2 or 3 days inbetween to let my body rest. I usually do that when I notice that I get stiff joints and they dont improve from foam rolling+mobility work. That happens every 2 months or so. Apart from that, although I value the importance of a deload week in the terms that you described it, I prefer to take a week off instead every 6 months. I just cant go in the gym and lift at 50% intensity and 30% volume for a week. I d rather not go at all.

Generally, if you are training with "bodybuilding parameters", I dont think a deload week is necessary. I would take it 2 days off and thats it. If you are using powerlifting parameters and maybe doing strongman or olympic lifting stuff, I would definitely consider deloading when you notice the "symptoms".

I fully agree with Kostas here. Just rest when you need to, deloading is not optimal in my opinion.

Thanks for your input, Kostas.

I'm curently studying and comparing training principles from various sports and I'm in dark about that for now. Also when runner, for instance, makes 4 trainings per week and cover cca 50-60 km per week, have rest days inbetween but he can't continue with progresive overloading for few months without consequences. Even top level athletes can handle only 2-3 weeks of really intense trainings.

Weight lifting routines are structured around that you progress with overload from week to week. Especially when you train for strength/power your nervous system is more under load and CNS needs much more time for recover than muscles. And it's meant to push yourself as much as possible on this trainings. So I wonder how long can someone handle continuos training that way. When you train one muscle group once per week I imagine there is plenty of time for full recover, but when you train 2-3 times same muscle group (or similar movements) per week, there should not be enough of recover in long term(?).

I think there is much bigger cumulative impact on body with endurance activities, where there is despite being aerobic activity also much of anaerobic workload, in comparison with weightlifting. I experienced and faced overtraining and escape from it's claws almost after 9 months, but never been in gym long enough to even come close to similar state. And I also incorporate some kind of deloading in routine.

That's why I'm asking all of you who are pure weightlifters. I would appreciate also experiences and thoughts from Scott, John, Eric, Daniel (also from your "clients") about that.

BR, Gregor

I'm kinda in the middle of this myself. I've always trained around 85%-90% my 1 RM unless I did high reps like 3-4 sets of 12. I usually do a routine for 4-6 weeks and then change either the reps orexercises. I've been told by a few I put a lot of stress on my joints. I don't like to miss the gym unless it's a scheduled rest day but I have missed 3 days in a row of lifting for reasons and 1 week due to vacation. Don't like it so much, matter of fact I don't like having more than 2 days in a row completely off from the gym. I've had bad days as well as others but the one I had last week got me thinking about deloading and I'm just not convinced of the whole week thing so I thought as long as I can still build some muscle, strength and burn calories I'd try TUT using 60%-70% of my 1 RM and give myself a little rest and still make it to the gym. It feels real good I must admit. I've just seen some body builders including my dad whose bodys suffer when they are older from all that constant heavy lifting so my bad day got me thinking. Of course I also feel everything is worth trying to see how your body responds to it so deloading every once in a while can't be a bad thing but for me after 3 days I feel way weaker and it takes me a bit to get where I was. I do like to throw in circuit traing once in a while to burn some extra calories which gives me a break from heavy lifting but so I see that as deloading a bit usually but I can't stick to it longer than 3 weeks. I don't know how well this relates to what you are asking but it's just my .02 cents. I've been able to progress in weight every week or 2 by usually 5lbs on my upper body and 10lbs on my lower body but as of late I hit my 3rd week and either get stuck at weight for a few weeks or end up dropping it back down so I don't know if it's my CNS telling me something or what.

Yes I understand. Your main focus is endurance training which complicates things. Problem is, different people will need different deload parameters so you cant really predict when you need a deload. As you said, if you train each muscle group once a week ( which is not optimal for strength but its good enough to go along your main endurance work), you will probably be fine and wont need deloads at all. I have never met anyone who strictly "bodybuilds" that needs a serious deload. Actually, most of the people are undertraining. I am now coaching my best friend who really enjoys powerlifting/olympic lifting. He also loves running. He HAS to take an off week every 3 months. Otherwise, his lifts go down, and hes tired all day. If he doesnt take that off week, other more serious symptoms will be added, like insomnia and CNS damage.

So, although I m not familiar with your exact routine, I d say EITHER take a deload week ( -50% intensity, -66% volume) every 6 weeks OR take an off week ( no training at all, other than sex!) every 3 months.

I was hoping for something exactly like that, Aaron, tnx!

Hey!, does not complicate, just make more fun of it :P

Regarding myself and last routine, I felt right after 6 weeks that I need a rest. I progress by 2.5kg every week with all basic compound movements (bench, bentover row, deadlift, squat), with leg press even a little bit more. I went hard all trainings, despite training each muscle group directly just once per week, progress was great and being satisfied with achievements. For deload week made some "fun circuits" and get me back more in the shape and fill with motivation, but unfortunately, now I'm moving out from the gym till next autumn/winter so I can't check things further I wanted on me right now.

When I said I incorporate in my routine in the past also some deloading weeks already in the beginning, I meant that:

week 1: 2x 20

week 2: 2x 30

week 3: 2x 40

week 4: 2x 35

week 5: 2x 45

week 6: 2x 50

week 7: 2x 40

week 8: 2x 55

week 9: 2x 60

week 10: 2x 50

week 11: 2x 40

week 12: 2x 30

This was for squats, 50% RM, as anyone can see it's for pure muscle endurance. If I'm honest, I can't imagine to go through similar routine, either for endurance or strength, without some deload phases.

But you pointed out one very good thing, Kostas, that's undertraining. And it goes somehow along that majority of people train just from esthetic reasons. Training either with strength or endurance principle for hypertrophy, never brings loads higher than 85% (90%) RM. That means nervous system is not so under load as it is at real max, and even powerlifters don't train constant with 100% but majority with submaximal loads. Correct me if I'm wrong. That goes along with trainings for eg sprinters, where they also train a lot with submaximal speeds and just minor time with 100% burn out speed. That brings much lower impact on CNS but still provide enough of overload for progress.

Another thing with "recreational" weightlifters, especially in last time when lean mass gaining is in front plan, the sense of any periodization gone away. When bulking and cutting were the way, there were at least two phases changing in season, but now for ordinary weightlifter is just one: lean muscle gain. And because never exceeding 85% RM, you can hardly even come to point of overtraining, if you are not exaggerate with volume. Professional lifters still needs some periodization, because they have milestones as competitions in their schedule but other lifters have "just" lifetime goal to look and feel beter and that's MAIN difference I found in what I was searching for and tried to understand and interdisciplinary connect principles from different sports.

But still one thing bother me in "recreational" weightlifting:

Looking this standard principle for anykind of training...does one day of rest between training (if you train 3-4 times a week) provide enough of rest and recovery on long term OR training load in general is not as big as could be? Would harder workouts for 3-4 weeks with deload week bring more results in muscle gain and strength than continuos?

Anyhow, I see I still have a lot to read about and study :D I would appreciate any thoughts and experiences from gym "veterans" (5-10+ years experiences)

BR, Gregor

PS: I don't mean anything bad with "recreational" weightlifters. Just didn't know how to separate pros with others.

Yea, you are right. But must consider that a deload is not only necessary for CNS recovery but also for muscle and joint recovery that can take a beating even when you are lifting at 50% RM. You said you are not into high volume so I doubt you need a serious deload because your CNS will obviously be alright and I dont think you are causing way too much metabolic fatigue. So, in your case, I would go for one rest day every 3-4 workout days instead of a deload week after weeks of non-stop training. If you find that you cant progress anymore and your programming/nutrition is fine, then take 2 rest days every 3-4 training sessions. I personally take 1 rest day for every training day. So I workout 3-4 times a week. But I m training the exact opposite way of you, very low volume, very heavy weights. The principle remains the same though. I am also progressing with a linear model (2,5kg whenever I can) and I am a recreational lifter. I lift for fun.

So, overtraining is a medical condition that needs months or years to develop. Doesnt mean you are overtraining if you go to the gym 5 days in a row. Actually, your body will probably over-compensate when you rest and you will make serious gains. But you cant train 5 days in a row all the time because it will catch up to you eventually. I understand you have goals, but you really have to experiment on this, because its different from person to person. I would just take extra rest days when I m not feeling my absolute best. Especially, since you are after endurance, there is no point in deload weeks or even off weeks. One day rest + a refeed on that day will work wonders.

Kostas

For sure it's not just because of CNS! Endurance runners need much more to deload stress on joints and skeleton than CNS. Cyclists don't have even those problems like runners, but have huge volume and need "global body" deload, usually after one block in their periodization cycle. Deload is not complete off, it's just easy going, light intensity and much lower volume, active regeneration. In those sports is that much easier to do than in a gym, you simply sit on a bike and cruise like granny.

But more as I study weightlifting now, more I see that here is completly different philosophy and aproach. Sometimes I need to switch my minds completely. And as I said at beginning, I'm not from this world so I ask you guys for your experiences to become more wise

Huh, I'm a little more complicated, since I play also squash once per week and have 1-2 hours dog-cardio every day. So I really have a little more work on my training plans to take in account all those things, and I listen to my body; never was a problem to skip training if I wasn't in good condition and also had no bad feeling for that. But I guess it's also something around that I'm also used to do period deloading weeks and my body is adapted to that and also "expect" deload after so long patern. Actually, that comes very naturally and I usually don't plan explicitly my deloading weeks. But anyhow, I found for myself that's the thing it works for me very well in any sport I do. And EVEN it's just a placebo, makes wonders! :)

I agree on overtraing. That's serious medical condition, not just physical, also psychical. Like burnout syndrom. Just differ in that first one is related to sport and second to job. Overtraining is also on my article to-do list ;)

Thanks once again for your input, you gave me some important reference points ;)

Others are still welcome to share your experiences :)

BR, Gregor

I've been doing similar to GT_turbo. Low load and high rep. 10-15 reps a set for a total of 100 reps. This came about when my right shoulder joint got tweaked. I couldn't do full range machine chest press, couldn't do heavy 6-8 reps lat pulldowns. I couldn't clean my bathroom mirror with a paper towel and windex using my right arm without feeling the pain.

I've been taking MSM which is helping a lot and with the new workout style, the results are awesome so far. I'll keep doing this for a month and see how the muscles respond. 15 rep is the rep below failure point. This is when the burn is greatest, the whole body starts shaking and moans and groans are being made. Tempo is 2 seconds up, 3-4 seconds going negative, no pause on top and bottom.

After a month, I'll try doing a bit heavier weight with 8-10 reps and a bit quicker tempo. And maybe alternate between the two sttyles.

What is your recommendation on central nervous system damage recovery? Or maybe first what are Your (or in general) symptomps?

You will know when your CNS is not sufficiently recovered from your workouts. You will feel like a burnt fuse - mentally a bit in a fog and physically just not full of energy or desire to train. Your muscles may feel fine but if you don't feel ready mentally to train your CNS is still recovering.

Now the key distinction is mental fatigue from lifting not laziness, sitting behind a desk, or not getting some fresh air. Sometimes the mental fatugue you feel is environment or diet related. I know when my CNS is not ready as I actually "fear" my impending workout as they are that intense. My brain just isn't into it. When it is due to not getting outside or moving around, I still feel "excited" to do my workout - if that makes sense.

CNS recovery times vary with age, nutrition plan, amount of rest days, and your training routine. Sometimes you recover fairly fast and sometimes you don't. The bottom line is if you just mentally aren't "into it", take another day or two off. If it is persistent - more than a week - get your lazy ass to the gym and get the blood flowing (unless you are physically ill) :-P

John

Great tips @jmboiardi! Hope that helps @sebastijanp!