Alright, I want to gather arguments on this thread in progressive overload. The point of the consept is to increase the weights on the bar from workout to workout. This is so that you can get more resistance for the muscles. However I personally think that this can hinder any bodybuilder from reaching perfect mind to muscle connection. I do not increase weight over a short period of time, because I do not care about strenght when I am on "a typical bodybuilding cycle" (as in I am only bodybuilding, no powerlifting and strenght). On these normal training cycles I will do 8-20 reps, and increasing weight when doing 20 reps can be pretty hard. Moreover the mind to muscle connection is the very essence of true and optimal bodybuilding. Therfore, I would much rather use lighter weight and make sure that I am contracting and squeezeing the muscle fully.

It is very easy to fall into the trap of doing heavier and heavier weight and then forgetting tempo, time under tension, mind to muscle and so on. Thus, I do not use progressive overload on normal bodybuilding training cycles. If you train more for fun or for strenght, then of course progressive overload is a very good technique to make sure that you are getting further and further every workout.

To conclude, I personally believe that as long as you ONLY want to build muscle / bodybuild, there is very little room for increased resistance over a shorter amount of time (6-12 weeks is short in my opinion).

What do you think ? Do you use progressive overload ? Why ?

I see what you are saying @William_Steinset.

But remember, there is more than one way to utilise progressive overload - such as TUT, shorter rest periods for example. Have you seen this article?: http://muscularstrength.com/article/Progressive-Overload-How-To-Keep-Making-Those-GAINS

As for the typical technique - adding weight to the bar - you're right, I think if you are purely body-building, the weight you lift isn't necesarilly overly important, what is important is breaking down the muscle so it can grow back bigger and stronger.

Obviously you can do that with heavier weights, but you're also right about the fact that if you focus so much on lifting more weight, you may forget about using full ROM, doing slow negatives and things like that.

Personally, yes I am interested in bodybuilding, and my main goal at the moment is basically to put on more size, not to bodybuild really just yet (i.e my focus isn't purely on scultping the muscle, as it would be if I were bodybuilding for competitions or something), but at the same time I want ti improve my strength, and here's where it gets tricky.

You want to lift heavier weight, but don't want to sacrifice form. But my thought is, if you are too afraid to try a heavier weight because you might break form, then you will probably never increase the weight. Truth is, if you want to lift heavier, you need to be willing to maybe not perform movements as great as you normally would with lighter weight. And even if you aren't making your last few reps perfect like normal, surely you're still activating and stressing the muscle, which is going to help you breakdown the muscle to rebuild bigger and stronger.

Sorry if I want a bit off topic there - This is just something I have really been thinking about lately as I work on muscle AND strength gains haha :)

So basically I do agree with what you are saying, that focusing on weight isn't the main focus, but it definitely helps to be working on lifting more weight, because in the long run it will help you for more than just bodybuilding. After all, it gets a bit stale lifting the same weight over and over again :P

Jordan

William,

I agree with Jordan. There are several ways to progressively overload a muscle. His article outlines them in more detail. Increasing the volume and intensity and making the muscle do more work in a shorter time is progressive overload.

Case in point: If I do squats 12-10-8-6 and raise the weight - for instance 12x135, 10x185, 8x205, 6x225 - with "normal" rest periods between sets (3-5minutes) - my legs have done a total of 135x12=1620, 185x10=1850, 205x8 = 1,640, 6x225 = 1350. This equals 6,460 total pounds over about 15 minutes assuming each set takes 1 minute to perform and you have an average of 4 minutes rest between sets.

Now take doing Legs my way: Supersets (Squats and Legpress)of 135x12 + 170x 12 (leg press machine is 80Lbs empty then add in 45 pound plates), 155x12 + 260x12, 175 x12 + 350 x 12, 185x12 + 350x12. So this totals (1620 + 2,040) + (1860 + 3120) + (2,100 + 4200) for a grand total of 14,940 pounds. If each set takes one minute and I allow one minute of rest between sets, I have done this over 8 minutes.

Even if you increase the per set totals of the first example you still don't match the total volume and weight of my superset. To make it even simpler, try doing a superset of squats and leg press where you do 4 sets of 185x12 + 260x12. This would be (2220 + 3120) x 4 = 12,480 total pounds in the same 8 minutes. Even this relatively "light weight" by leg training standards has your legs pushing more aggregate weight in less time than traditional sets with higher weight increases.

That is progressive overload :-)

John

In progressive overload, increasing the weight on the bar will help to break down the muscle easily. But.... it only take effect if you maintain the correct form and mind muscle connection here.

Most of the time, lifters focus on the weight and sacrifice the form. They did not realize that, when the form was completely destroyed.. and so as the mind muscle connection as well. There's another way to break down the muscle and that is increasing the intensity of your workout. Much better to stick with a lighter weight executing the correct form, because if you increase the volume and intensity, you are making the muscle on high level of work. Sacrificing the form and mind muscle conntection... the workout is pointless.

Rest peroids is also a way to progressively overload a muscle. However if my rest periods are only 60 seconds and my set times are 45 seconds, it would be almost impossible to overload the muscle with less rest time. Why ? Because 60 seconds is in of it self very little rest. Decreasing it even further would lead to loss of strenght during the next set, which might mean that the weight on the bar gets decreased as well. Which means that if you are doing bodybuilding with small rest periods and long set peroids, decreasing rest peroids is close to pointless.

I agree that if your rest peroids are as long as 3-5 minutes, decreasing it would be a good thing. But then again, why should it be that long in the first place ? So yes it is beneficial with those rest times, but not really when the rest times are short.

I agree with everyone here. When I strength train my rest between sets is 3 mins. After the 1st week I take off 15 secs from each set and the same the week after so I'm then doing 2 1/2 mins between sets. I then bump my rest time back up to 3 mins and increase the weights. IMO if you can strenght train with 1 min rests then you aren't strength training so I don't bother droping rest times any more. It's funny because I can't just increase weight each week, it doesn't work that way for me and I feel you should TRY and progress somehow every week or after 2 weeks. When I do higher reps with say 45 secs to 1 mins rest between sets then like you said I won't try to decrease rest times I just increase weight but if I can't 1 week I add a rep and then the following week drop back down and increase weight. Keeps me progressing and I am growing and getting stronger because of it, if I didn't progress but every 3 weeks I think my progress would be cut in half. The whole idea behind Progression in my mind is to keep giving your body a reason to grow and get stronger, keep your body from adapting.