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FearlessRobb
FearlessRobb g Robert Lucier
108 Post(s)
108 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: November 11, 2014
Posted

Im begining to hate squats for a few reasons and ill adress some reasons why if need be

1. my knees always hurt when i go lower than 90 degrees (but i wanna go as low as i can casue your should  Full ROM)

   Why:

  No idea why, just bending down my thigh and calf come close together and put alot of pressure on my knees

2. i feel like i cant do as much weight as i should be able to cause when i can do with leg press is amazing compared to squat

WHY:

   Squat 265x9, 245x10, 225x11     Legg press  735x11, 735x11, 735x11  I weigh 300 now   dont ask  bad eating habits but i fixed that lol  so i guess its really like my squats are   565x9,  545x10,   525x11 if you add body weight lmao  So i guess its not as bad as i think lol

3. i always seem to drive more with my ball than my heal and no matter what i try i cant do it

  WHY: 

NO IDEA

4.  its a smith machine

  WHY:

All i have that i can use

 

 

X
FearlessRobb 370lbs to 260lbs Deadlift 375x10(don't know max 1RPM) Bench 245x7(don't know max 1RPM) Squat
Whisper
Whisper p+ Kostas Kroustaloudis
687 Post(s)
687 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Train for a sport Date Joined: September 9, 2011
Posted
Posted By: FearlessRobb

Im begining to hate squats for a few reasons and ill adress some reasons why if need be

1. my knees always hurt when i go lower than 90 degrees (but i wanna go as low as i can casue your should  Full ROM)

   Why:

  No idea why, just bending down my thigh and calf come close together and put alot of pressure on my knees

2. i feel like i cant do as much weight as i should be able to cause when i can do with leg press is amazing compared to squat

WHY:

   Squat 265x9, 245x10, 225x11     Legg press  735x11, 735x11, 735x11  I weigh 300 now   dont ask  bad eating habits but i fixed that lol  so i guess its really like my squats are   565x9,  545x10,   525x11 if you add body weight lmao  So i guess its not as bad as i think lol

3. i always seem to drive more with my ball than my heal and no matter what i try i cant do it

  WHY: 

NO IDEA

4.  its a smith machine

  WHY:

All i have that i can use

 

 

X

Well Robert your problem is that you are doing them on a smith machine haha! Lets take it one at a time :

1) Your knees hurt mainly because you are using a machine and your joints cant move around freely. Also, because I know some people might disagree, its also your form and knee mobility. To be sure about your form, you need to upload a video of you doing some smith machine squats. If your form is good and you still get knee pain, it almost definitely is a mobility thing. Immobile hips or hypermobile hips can create knee pain. Any kind of imbalance in the area surrounding the knee will cause knee pain as well.

 

2) Obviously you wont lift as much with the squat, in comparison to a leg press. A squat is a full body movement, whereas the leg press is just a quad/glute exercise.

Free squats will be even more difficult than smith squats because more stabilization is required. That is no reason not do the squats. If anything you should be doing them to get stronger.

 

3) Again, this is either a form or a mobility issue. This can be an ankle mobility issue. Cant really tell you without a video of your form :)

 

4) Go to a different gym! A gym without a squat cage/rack is no gym in my opinion. Even if you cant switch gyms, I would choose dumbell squats or goblet squats every day, instead of smith squats.

 

Kostas

Muscular Strength Athlete and Content Manager 6 Years Lifting Experience Bachelors in Molecular Chemistry/Biochemistry, Working towards Masters Lifting Style & Philosophy : Aikido, Energy, Balance, Flexibility, Posture
FearlessRobb
FearlessRobb g Robert Lucier
108 Post(s)
108 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: November 11, 2014
Posted
Posted By: Whisper

Well Robert your problem is that you are doing them on a smith machine haha! Lets take it one at a time :

1) Your knees hurt mainly because you are using a machine and your joints cant move around freely. Also, because I know some people might disagree, its also your form and knee mobility. To be sure about your form, you need to upload a video of you doing some smith machine squats. If your form is good and you still get knee pain, it almost definitely is a mobility thing. Immobile hips or hypermobile hips can create knee pain. Any kind of imbalance in the area surrounding the knee will cause knee pain as well.

 

2) Obviously you wont lift as much with the squat, in comparison to a leg press. A squat is a full body movement, whereas the leg press is just a quad/glute exercise.

Free squats will be even more difficult than smith squats because more stabilization is required. That is no reason not do the squats. If anything you should be doing them to get stronger.

 

3) Again, this is either a form or a mobility issue. This can be an ankle mobility issue. Cant really tell you without a video of your form :)

 

4) Go to a different gym! A gym without a squat cage/rack is no gym in my opinion. Even if you cant switch gyms, I would choose dumbell squats or goblet squats every day, instead of smith squats.

 

Kostas

thanks

 

on the 1 

  doing a squat with no weight just my body sometimes bothers my knees. depends on the day.   along with leg curls.  sometimes it can hurt that day or the day after

i honestly used to not be able to bend down to the ground without picking up off the heels of my feet and balancing on my balls withouht falling over.  But the more i did it i was able to inally squat down all the way keeping my feet flat on the ground.  so probably a flexability problem

FearlessRobb 370lbs to 260lbs Deadlift 375x10(don't know max 1RPM) Bench 245x7(don't know max 1RPM) Squat
JoeHurricane
JoeHurricane p Jordan Matthews
1.5K Post(s)
1.5K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: December 12, 2013
Posted
Posted By: FearlessRobb

thanks

 

on the 1 

  doing a squat with no weight just my body sometimes bothers my knees. depends on the day.   along with leg curls.  sometimes it can hurt that day or the day after

i honestly used to not be able to bend down to the ground without picking up off the heels of my feet and balancing on my balls withouht falling over.  But the more i did it i was able to inally squat down all the way keeping my feet flat on the ground.  so probably a flexability problem

Kostas has basically covered you on all fronts.

 

The only other thing I would say is about your form - are you pushing your knees out, or are they collapsing in when you squat?

 

Obviously we would be able to see via video if you decide to post one :) But the movement of your knees could be an issue?

 

Jordan

SHF Athlete MS Athlete Partial Fitness YouTuber
FearlessRobb
FearlessRobb g Robert Lucier
108 Post(s)
108 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: November 11, 2014
Posted

THIS IS

 

 

NOT ME

This is an example of what i do with the squat and how my legs are.

I dont have a computer and the one i use is at work so cant really download or upload anything to them.

but i do a wide stance just like than making sure my knees stay in line with my feet and dont pass my toes

 

 

 

FearlessRobb 370lbs to 260lbs Deadlift 375x10(don't know max 1RPM) Bench 245x7(don't know max 1RPM) Squat
crood
crood a Chris P.
467 Post(s)
467 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Train for a sport Date Joined: August 8, 2014
Posted

@FearlessRobb

 

Hey there, the others have covered some aspects nicely already.

 

Let me chime in here too.

 

Costas and Joe already have mentioned the 'form'. There is a few more things to it, than just the feet and knee position. Let me try to show a few things and give some suggestions what else you could try.

 

Quote (you): "3. i always seem to drive more with my ball than my heal and no matter what i try i cant do it"

 

This particular issue clearly shows, you are still not 'backwards' enough.

Which can have one of the following reasons:

 

- Back / Spine flexibility.

- Head position.

- Upper Body not upright enough.

 

^ these 3 kinda come together:

 

The head position, can lead to a too forwards upper body position, and this in return can also cause the arched spine to collapse into a round back. Which moves your 'pivot' point quite forwards to your toes instead of your heels, and also has more force on the knees. (Leave alone how unhealthy it is for the spine)

 

Spine flexability is needed to keep the back arched when descending. Which again is needed to maintain a neutral spine and an upright form. If that lacks, we will have again a bend spine, and the weight forcing through an unfortunate positioned pivot point.

 

Check your form in regards to this, and try varying your head position. Look upwards, tuck your chin in, arch your back and avoid a rounded back.

 

Try: looking up, tuck in your chin, arch your back. Avoid any rounding or forwards positioning as much as your current flexibility allows you.

 

- Hamstrings, glutes and calves lacking some needed strength /and / or flexibility to perform right form:

 

^ the further we push our behind backwards, and keep arching the back, trying to let the knees not come over your feet, the more the focus shifts on to hamstrings and calves and glutes (green), away from the quads (blue) alone doing all the work.

 

You can clearly feel that when you lower yourself into a quad position trying to maintain propper form (keep your hands on the hamstrings), the further out you push your buttox and the more downwards you come the more your hamstrings start to tighten and contract, same goes for the calves.

 

If they lack of strength, or if the hamstrings are too tight and shortened, the body will now of course shift more towards the hamstrings again, which it only can do by keeping you too much forward once more.

 

Try: Arching your back properly, go really wide out with your buttox (keep head in the right position too). Possibly try this with bodyweight alone at first. Lean really back into your heels. Until you feel your calves and hamstrings pulling, and the weight being on the heel pads rather than on your toes.

This can be a very humbling experience and might even drop you down on the ground when the hamstrings are not used to this and denie to hold this position :)

 

A box in height of the lowest squadpoint can help here. So you have something to "aim" at with your buttox and to catch you should the far back out position make you drop down. (PS: it's also a good method to train strength for a new higher weight )

 

 

- Wrong Stance for your body type.

 

Depending on the length of your legs in comparison to your all over size, sometimes one stance will do better than the other one (hence why shoulder width , ad well as sumo stance are allowed in competetive olympic lifting)

 

Try: a more narrow stance, or a full sumo stance and see which one works better for you and allows you the right form.

 

 

- Why you can press more on a leg press than in a smith machine, than in a free barbell squad:

 

Red shows where the force goes through, blue shows what musclegroups are mainly used. Including stabilizers.

 

The Leg press really only lets you use your legs, mainly quads, glutes and a bit hamstrings. The force only goes through your legs, your upper body plays no role in this. And even the knees are less bothered due to the seating position, and how the force is passing through. It clearly is an isolation exercise.

The Smith machine basically takes 'away' a lot of the weight load, plus you don't need many stabilizer muscles to work. You can basically 'lean' into the machine and just concentrate on the descending and ascending part. The force mainly goes straight through the bodymiddle. The smith machine is good for training, but i do agree with the others here free weights is what you want to go for :) But for now you will need to work with what you have.

 

With a free barbell, loaded with weight, your whole body has to work, to get this all moving up and down and to keep you from collapsing in the middle under the weight as well. Here you really need all your muscles, including your core's stabilizers and evevn shoudlers,m upper back, lower back, down to your feet having to do way more work to balance and stabilize as well. This why it's called a 'compound' exercise.

 

I think, comparing these 3, should make it clear why you can do way more weight in a legpress machine :)

 

Hope this all helps a bit to find and fight your personal struggles with squads.

 

Cheers! - crood : out -

Admin + MS Athlete You will get nowhere, if you don't move :) - crood -
Whisper
Whisper p+ Kostas Kroustaloudis
687 Post(s)
687 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Train for a sport Date Joined: September 9, 2011
Posted
Posted By: FearlessRobb

thanks

 

on the 1 

  doing a squat with no weight just my body sometimes bothers my knees. depends on the day.   along with leg curls.  sometimes it can hurt that day or the day after

i honestly used to not be able to bend down to the ground without picking up off the heels of my feet and balancing on my balls withouht falling over.  But the more i did it i was able to inally squat down all the way keeping my feet flat on the ground.  so probably a flexability problem

Yea man probably a flexibility issue. Its almost always a flexibility issue. Its extremely rare to get pain for a random reason. Either a form problem, or a flexibility problem which doesnt allow you to get perfect form.

Muscular Strength Athlete and Content Manager 6 Years Lifting Experience Bachelors in Molecular Chemistry/Biochemistry, Working towards Masters Lifting Style & Philosophy : Aikido, Energy, Balance, Flexibility, Posture
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