Hey guys,

 

So I've tried quite a few of Scott's mass building bicep routines and have gained some weight from mixing them into my own routine. However, I'm having trouble getting my forearms and lower biceps (just above the elbow joint) to grow at all. I have seen virtually no growth in either of these areas despite using full range of motion throughout all of my exercises, hitting the muscle from multiple angles and going with high volume, low rest.

 

For forearms I've tried different variations of wrist curls. I also hit my forearms when I do pullups and deadlifts as well, but yet, even when I focus on forearms, I can't seem to get them to grow at all. Oftentimes they get fatigued, but I never really feel a pump in my forearms.

 

As for my biceps -- the fact that my lower bicep, just above my elbow, is underdeveloped makes my whole bicep look like it has grown less than it truly has. I've tried hitting the brachioradialis with hammer curls and different grip variations, but it doesn't hit the area that I'm really trying to target....

 

Do you guys have any really good exercises for either of these areas?

 

Thanks, as always!

 

Pierre

Hey guys,

 

So I've tried quite a few of Scott's mass building bicep routines and have gained some weight from mixing them into my own routine. However, I'm having trouble getting my forearms and lower biceps (just above the elbow joint) to grow at all. I have seen virtually no growth in either of these areas despite using full range of motion throughout all of my exercises, hitting the muscle from multiple angles and going with high volume, low rest.

 

For forearms I've tried different variations of wrist curls. I also hit my forearms when I do pullups and deadlifts as well, but yet, even when I focus on forearms, I can't seem to get them to grow at all. Oftentimes they get fatigued, but I never really feel a pump in my forearms.

 

As for my biceps -- the fact that my lower bicep, just above my elbow, is underdeveloped makes my whole bicep look like it has grown less than it truly has. I've tried hitting the brachioradialis with hammer curls and different grip variations, but it doesn't hit the area that I'm really trying to target....

 

Do you guys have any really good exercises for either of these areas?

 

Thanks, as always!

 

Pierre

Kostas (Whisper) is right. The shape and attachment points of your bicep heads (short head and long head) are pre-determined by genetics. Some people have short biceps like Franco Columbo had. Some people have longer biceps heads like Sergio Oliva and Arnold. Generally, short biceps don't have as much mass but have higer peaks and long bicep heads have more mass but less peak. I now have both after I tore my left bicep :-)

 

As for forearms, you might try the Iron Bull grips Scott uses. They increase the thickness of any bar you hold thus increasing the effort the forearms have to exert to grip. Forearms are like calves and legs, they need higher amounts of stimulation to grow because they are used continually everyday.

 

John

@Whisper, thanks for your reply!

 

Sorry... I should have been more clear...

 

When I say lower bicep, I don't mean the gap there. I mean to say the lower brachii-- the part that, when your arm is fully extended, lies just above your elbow. Whether or not you can target your lower brachii has been the subject of a good amount of debate. The common argument is, "If you can work your lower bicep harder than the rest of the bicep, then show me how to flex your lower bicep." While flexing your lower bicep alone cannot be done, I am of the persuasion that you can target specific areas of an overall muscle more than others. So yes, I am definitely the most focused on mass, but where I disagree a bit is that I believe hitting the muscle from different angles will lead to different types of muscle development. Again, it is the subject of much debate...

 

As for the forearms: my problem seems to be that I am indeed lifting heavy on my deadlifts, but am not seeing any increase in my grip strength or forearm size. I'm sure this could come with time, as you are saying, but mostly I posted this thread to see if anyone has seen forearm gains from different exercises and which exercises those are (I'm not too concerned whether they isolate the forearms alone or not). I'll make it a point to try to do some more pullups in my routine, and I've never tried farmer's walks so I'll definitely give that a shot as well!

 

Thanks again.

 

Pierre

@Whisper, thanks for your reply!

 

Sorry... I should have been more clear...

 

When I say lower bicep, I don't mean the gap there. I mean to say the lower brachii-- the part that, when your arm is fully extended, lies just above your elbow. Whether or not you can target your lower brachii has been the subject of a good amount of debate. The common argument is, "If you can work your lower bicep harder than the rest of the bicep, then show me how to flex your lower bicep." While flexing your lower bicep alone cannot be done, I am of the persuasion that you can target specific areas of an overall muscle more than others. So yes, I am definitely the most focused on mass, but where I disagree a bit is that I believe hitting the muscle from different angles will lead to different types of muscle development. Again, it is the subject of much debate...

 

As for the forearms: my problem seems to be that I am indeed lifting heavy on my deadlifts, but am not seeing any increase in my grip strength or forearm size. I'm sure this could come with time, as you are saying, but mostly I posted this thread to see if anyone has seen forearm gains from different exercises and which exercises those are (I'm not too concerned whether they isolate the forearms alone or not). I'll make it a point to try to do some more pullups in my routine, and I've never tried farmer's walks so I'll definitely give that a shot as well!

 

Thanks again.

 

Pierre

For the forearms, the most common answers you re gonna get is "try this exercise" or "try the other exercise". But the fact of the matter is that if you stimulate a muscle it will grow. The deciding factor is "how much stimulation" for optimal gains. Most people train too much and they dont see results because of it. In your case, you might just have to increase the volume and more importantly..the frequency of your forearm workouts. If 2 times a week isnt doing it for you, try 3 or 4. I have seen people with great forearms that train them heavy every day, because after all they are a conditioning muscle group. So, even if you tried other exercises, you most likely wont see a difference because you need to change some other parameter in your workout. The most common one, as I said, is frequency.

And as for the biceps argument, I dont believe in debates. I do my research and find out what is true and what is not. That whole angle argument is definitely invalid based on tons and tons of research and experiments. Some exercises will work better for you and some wont. That is based on your mechanic build (limb length, bone length, tendon attachments..). But if you find the exercises that work for you, you can stick with them forever without making any changes and you will keep growing. Even exercises like the overhead press and the bench press which seem so different, are actually extremely similar, and will grow the same muscles to the same extend.

What people dont understand is this. You dont have to activate a muscle 100% to see maximum gains. You just need to stimulate growth. So even though the triceps are not 100% activated while bench pressing, if your volume and frequency for the bench press is enough, your triceps will also grow at a maximum rate, without ever doing any isolation exercises. Obviously there are people with bad tricep genetics who will need to try something different and sounds like you have bad brachii genetics, so you need to try different stuff ( parameters)

I love doing heavy farmers walks for forearms. It has seemed to be the best mass gaining one for me. Overall though, I don't like doing direct forearm work. I feel that my forearms respond best to just gripping really hard when I'm doing rows, presses, chins, etc... It's different for everyone though!

 

I know everyone has covered biceps already, but something that has helped me develop that part of my biceps is when I do dumbbell curls. Instead of just bringing the weight up and back down, at the top of the movement, try twisting your wrist in towards your shoulder a little until you feel a squeeze in the bicep. Hold for like 2 seconds, then bring it back down. This has been huge in my bicep training. Hope this info can help you a bit!

 

Jonah

If you haven't already, try Scott's "bicep blaster II" routine for 6-8 weeks. I did that twice a week for quite a while and every part of my biceps grew.

 

I have no idea about the physiology of the human physique, but I do know that that routine got me great bicep(s) results!

 

Keep working hard and your muscles will grow.

@Whisper, I'm not one for debates either . I trust that you've done research about it, but I still always like to ask questions. Your argument brings up one question in my mind: Why even use different lifts of the same muscle in a routine at all if they all develop muscle in the same way? Just for a change of pace? I'm not sure I understand. If you wouldn't mind clarifying I would like to hear your take on it.

I agree with @jonahsaller 's input!

"Why even use different lifts of the same muscle in a routine at all if they all develop muscle in the same way?"

I personally dont. Not for myself and not for my clients. I put most of my clients on a full body workout 3-4 times a week. They squat every time they do the workout, usually 5x5. That means 15-20 sets of squats (legs) every week which is considered high volume. The reason that is effective is because it spreads the volume over a frequency of 3 or 4 days. So this increases protein-synthesis all week long, and recovery is excellent because 5 sets are not too much for a workout. Obviously for legs, there will be some splash over from the deadlifts they have to do later but thats ok. This is probably good anyway.

After 15-18 months, when my clients require more volume and I cant possible sustain the high volume with full body workouts, I switch over to push/pull splits or upper/lower splits with a frequency of 2. Now they do 2 or 3 exercises per body part every 3-4 days.

But I m definitely not going to have someone do 25 sets of back in a day, unless they are extremely advanced or on gear.

The reason you need both the overhead press and the bench press in the workout plan (not in the same day necessarily, but on the same week) is because strength-wise, they complement each other and I dont want to create strength imbalances. But as far as mass gain is concerned, I put frequency above volume every day of the week.