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Vect0rs
Vect0rs g Ben Unknown
133 Post(s)
133 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

1.

 

a) Well yes assuming you are in a surplus, what I mean is, does eating, and eating protein specifically right before bed have any affect on muscle growth? If I don't eat for 3 hours before I sleep or if I eat 30-60 min before will it have any affect?

 

b) does casien specifically make any difference compared to what I said I eat before bed?

 

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

1.

 

a) Well yes assuming you are in a surplus, what I mean is, does eating, and eating protein specifically right before bed have any affect on muscle growth? If I don't eat for 3 hours before I sleep or if I eat 30-60 min before will it have any affect?

 

b) does casien specifically make any difference compared to what I said I eat before bed?

 

1a. Again, not by itself. It doesn't matter when you eat. Just as long as you are in a surplus for the entire day and get enough protein for the entire day.

 

1b. Well eggs aren't casein, so maybe won't digest as slowly as casein would, BUT that doesn't mean it's bad. It won't make a major difference, if any difference at all.

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Vect0rs
Vect0rs g Ben Unknown
133 Post(s)
133 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

Thanks for the reply Scott, I'm back with a few new questions.

 

1. This is about dumbbell lateral raises. A long time ago I saw one of Jeff's videos where he was saying that the way many people do lateral raises where they try to point their pinkies up at the top like pouring a pitcher of water leads to impingment, so he suggested to do lateral raises where you externally rotate by bringing the thumb higher at the top, however this leads to more tension on the front delt rather than the middle so therefor Jeff and some other people suggest to lean just a little forward to place tension back on the middle delt at the top while still being able to externally rotate. Now my question is some people forgo all of this and just do them standing or seated with niether externally or internally roatating at the top, so what is the difference and which one do you suggest to do?

 

2.

 

a) I got the dip belt and the chalk! However with the belt I get how you put the plates through the chain but it seems like it would just fall, how do you actually get it on so the belt doesn't fall?

 

b) Also do you adjust the size of the belt or just leave it as how it comes regardless of how big you are?

 

3.

 

a) My deadlift is almost at 275 for 5x5, (Just crushed 255 for 5x5 today), interestingly even at this weight I don't actually feel pressure in my lower back at all, in fact since getting better at bracing the abs as well I feel tighter than before and I barely feel my back after I do a set? So I guess this means I don't need a belt then right?

 

b) Whereas with the OHP a trainer told me just to drop the weight 10-15 lb and build back up because I may have gone up in weight to fast and that's why my back only starts to arch at 95lb+ but below that doesn't. However he still recommened when I do get up to around 135 to start using a belt?

 

c) I a while ago asked you for how long I can do heavy squats/ deadlifts on the same day, however my question now is, at what point is doing 5x5 with deadlifts too much volume, like at what weight do you have to switch to doing 3x5 or 3x3 or something?

 

4. Also he helped me with the squat and basically we figured out that I was going a bit too low (like the exact opposite problem most people have lol), and when I go just a few inches below parallel the butt wink isn't significant, but when I go lower it does increase a lot. So he told me for a few weeks to do box squats at exactly that depth where I am below paralell but not too low to make sure my ROM is good, so anyway my question with all this is basically I do have the flexibility to go even lower, but since at that point my butt wink gets severe I should from now on always stick to the depth that's just a little below parallel when I get back to regular squats right?

 

5.

 

a) Lastly this is a very general question, but what is your view on how much volume is needed as a beginner vs intermediate vs advanced, what I mean is that if you for example do 20 sets for biceps as a beginner, won't it mean when you are more advanced your going to have to do a huge amount of volume to grow at that point?

 

b) The second part of this question is as I am still a beginner, is doing 16 sets of direct bicep work per week and 20 sets of direct tricep work per week too much (considering these are smaller muscle groups)? Now this volume is NOT all in one day, it's split over three days.

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

Thanks for the reply Scott, I'm back with a few new questions.

 

1. This is about dumbbell lateral raises. A long time ago I saw one of Jeff's videos where he was saying that the way many people do lateral raises where they try to point their pinkies up at the top like pouring a pitcher of water leads to impingment, so he suggested to do lateral raises where you externally rotate by bringing the thumb higher at the top, however this leads to more tension on the front delt rather than the middle so therefor Jeff and some other people suggest to lean just a little forward to place tension back on the middle delt at the top while still being able to externally rotate. Now my question is some people forgo all of this and just do them standing or seated with niether externally or internally roatating at the top, so what is the difference and which one do you suggest to do?

 

2.

 

a) I got the dip belt and the chalk! However with the belt I get how you put the plates through the chain but it seems like it would just fall, how do you actually get it on so the belt doesn't fall?

 

b) Also do you adjust the size of the belt or just leave it as how it comes regardless of how big you are?

 

3.

 

a) My deadlift is almost at 275 for 5x5, (Just crushed 255 for 5x5 today), interestingly even at this weight I don't actually feel pressure in my lower back at all, in fact since getting better at bracing the abs as well I feel tighter than before and I barely feel my back after I do a set? So I guess this means I don't need a belt then right?

 

b) Whereas with the OHP a trainer told me just to drop the weight 10-15 lb and build back up because I may have gone up in weight to fast and that's why my back only starts to arch at 95lb+ but below that doesn't. However he still recommened when I do get up to around 135 to start using a belt?

 

c) I a while ago asked you for how long I can do heavy squats/ deadlifts on the same day, however my question now is, at what point is doing 5x5 with deadlifts too much volume, like at what weight do you have to switch to doing 3x5 or 3x3 or something?

 

4. Also he helped me with the squat and basically we figured out that I was going a bit too low (like the exact opposite problem most people have lol), and when I go just a few inches below parallel the butt wink isn't significant, but when I go lower it does increase a lot. So he told me for a few weeks to do box squats at exactly that depth where I am below paralell but not too low to make sure my ROM is good, so anyway my question with all this is basically I do have the flexibility to go even lower, but since at that point my butt wink gets severe I should from now on always stick to the depth that's just a little below parallel when I get back to regular squats right?

 

5.

 

a) Lastly this is a very general question, but what is your view on how much volume is needed as a beginner vs intermediate vs advanced, what I mean is that if you for example do 20 sets for biceps as a beginner, won't it mean when you are more advanced your going to have to do a huge amount of volume to grow at that point?

 

b) The second part of this question is as I am still a beginner, is doing 16 sets of direct bicep work per week and 20 sets of direct tricep work per week too much (considering these are smaller muscle groups)? Now this volume is NOT all in one day, it's split over three days.

1. I would suggest pinkies up if anything. If you have external rotation with your thumbs up, I feel like you would hit more of the rear delt really. I understand the concept of the slight lean forward to hit the lateral head.. but I feel like most people will just turn that into a rear delt fly. If you're having trouble targeting the lateral head, a better option might be to use kettlebells and not worry about pinkies or thumbs - just focus on taking the weight AWAY from your body to activate the lateral head.

 

2a. You put the belt on, take the chain, put it through the plates and clip it to the other side of the belt. It shouldn't fall. And you just leave the belt as is, it's not really adjustable unless you mess around with the chain length.

 

3a. If you don't feel pressure in your back, no you don't need a belt yet.

 

3b. Depends if you feel pressure or not at 135lbs. Just gauge it by how you feel. If you feel you REALLY need a belt because of pressure in your lower back/core, then start wearing one when that happens to keep things tight.

 

3c. There is no weight when you have to change. When you hit a plateau it might be time to change things up.

 

4. Probably, although you want to go ass to grass if you can. Instead of just ignoring the butt wink, and avoiding it all together, work on fixing it. Maybe raising your heels might help. Maybe loosening up around the hips might help. Try to work past it.

 

5a. Probably start on the lower end of volume as a beginner, and work your way up. But as you get more advanced, there are other ways to progress other than just doing more volume.

 

5b. So about 5-6 sets per session if you're training them three times a week? That's definitely not too much volume. Sounds good and if you are seeing good results with it, stick with it!

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Vect0rs
Vect0rs g Ben Unknown
133 Post(s)
133 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

1.

 

a) I just grabbed a few light dumbbells and I see what you mean, I actually can tell it does feel like a rear delt fly instead. If you are suggesting pinkies up that means you don't think doing lateral raises like that can lead to impingment?

 

b) I can try it with the kettbelts actually remember some video where Alberto Nuez (if that's how it's spelled?) was doing that. However doing it with dumbbells while not pointing the pinkie or thumb up would still hit the lateral delt pretty good right, it's not like by not having the pinkie up makes a big difference?

 

 

3.

 

b) I don't feel pressure in my back but I do feel it arch, but it feels like since I am trying to stay tight, my lower back stays straight now, but my upper back still arches...?

 

c) Okay so when I hit a platue though should I switch to 3x5 or 3x3 or what? My current goal after 275 is 315 but I want to at some point hit 500lb.

 

4. I warm up hips and stuff that warmup is pretty thorough. Now about heels they are already elevated because of my weightlifting shoes? I honestly just want to get my technique/setup down so that I can focus on just getting stronger my deadlift is now 275, bench 175 and squat still like 135...pretty soon someone might ask me if I even train legs haha. Even the barbell glute bridges which I just started doing I can do 175x10 so even that is way stronger than my squat 😂 

 

5.

 

a) Such as?

 

b) Well like 4 sets of biceps/triceps 2x per week, and then a third day with 8 sets of biceps and 12 sets of triceps.

 

 

---------------

 

Also a few other things:

 

6. You know how you said you should always go 1-2 reps shy of failure, so my question is, are you 1-2 reps shy of failure when the rep you are currently doing slows down? Or how do you know your at 1-2 reps away from failure?

 

7. Lastly during my leg workout today I was fried after the barbell glute bridges, squats, and deadlifts, and then wehn I tried to leg press and leg curl it was worse than the week before (I got a lot less reps with the same weight), since I got enough rest, and ate enough, does that mean that the volume was more than I could recover from? Should I just drop leg press/leg curl /quad/hamstring isos and just do Barbell Glute Bridge for 4x8, Squats 5x5, and Deadlifts 5x5 ?

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

1.

 

a) I just grabbed a few light dumbbells and I see what you mean, I actually can tell it does feel like a rear delt fly instead. If you are suggesting pinkies up that means you don't think doing lateral raises like that can lead to impingment?

 

b) I can try it with the kettbelts actually remember some video where Alberto Nuez (if that's how it's spelled?) was doing that. However doing it with dumbbells while not pointing the pinkie or thumb up would still hit the lateral delt pretty good right, it's not like by not having the pinkie up makes a big difference?

 

 

3.

 

b) I don't feel pressure in my back but I do feel it arch, but it feels like since I am trying to stay tight, my lower back stays straight now, but my upper back still arches...?

 

c) Okay so when I hit a platue though should I switch to 3x5 or 3x3 or what? My current goal after 275 is 315 but I want to at some point hit 500lb.

 

4. I warm up hips and stuff that warmup is pretty thorough. Now about heels they are already elevated because of my weightlifting shoes? I honestly just want to get my technique/setup down so that I can focus on just getting stronger my deadlift is now 275, bench 175 and squat still like 135...pretty soon someone might ask me if I even train legs haha. Even the barbell glute bridges which I just started doing I can do 175x10 so even that is way stronger than my squat 😂 

 

5.

 

a) Such as?

 

b) Well like 4 sets of biceps/triceps 2x per week, and then a third day with 8 sets of biceps and 12 sets of triceps.

 

 

---------------

 

Also a few other things:

 

6. You know how you said you should always go 1-2 reps shy of failure, so my question is, are you 1-2 reps shy of failure when the rep you are currently doing slows down? Or how do you know your at 1-2 reps away from failure?

 

7. Lastly during my leg workout today I was fried after the barbell glute bridges, squats, and deadlifts, and then wehn I tried to leg press and leg curl it was worse than the week before (I got a lot less reps with the same weight), since I got enough rest, and ate enough, does that mean that the volume was more than I could recover from? Should I just drop leg press/leg curl /quad/hamstring isos and just do Barbell Glute Bridge for 4x8, Squats 5x5, and Deadlifts 5x5 ?

1a. I don't believe so. Remember it's not a max weight exercise either. If you're doing it controlled with proper form, you should be fine.

 

1b. No it's not a MAJOR difference. It's just a cue some people like to use if they are struggling to feel the lateral head working, or struggling to see growth there. But you can do then with a neutral wrist too.

 

3b. Your upper back will arch a little. That's normal. How much of an arch? Maybe post a video of your form so we can have a look.

 

3c. Well 3x5 would probably be more of a deload option, because you won't be doing as much volume. So if you hit a platea, probably take that deload, and then either go back to 5x5 or 3x3 if you need to do less reps in order to overload more. Or even 5 sets of 3 reps. OR do a reverse pyramid scheme, like there is in the PPL program.

 

4. Ah yeah I forgot your already have weight lifting shoes. It's hard for me to say what the issue might be online and without seeing you squat - could be hips, could be ankles. I would work on mobility for both outside of the gym, as well as part of your warm-up routine before squatting if you feel any tightness in those areas. Another video of this might be helpful.

 

5a. Read this:

 

5b. OK sure. That's still OK. To be honest 15 sets would probably be all you need right now for those smaller muscle groups, and then you could increase it a bit as your progress, BUT doing as many sets as you are isn't 'bad' if you are eating enough and getting enough rest.

 

6. Your last rep should be hard, but you should feel like if you needed to, you could probably grind out one more. Basically your last rep should be a struggle.

 

7. You were probably just more fatigued from going through those first movements. It happens. Just because you were doing lighter weight doesn't mean you were doing anything wrong or 'worse'. Just that you had worked harder during those first exercises.

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Vect0rs
Vect0rs g Ben Unknown
133 Post(s)
133 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

1. Okay so IllI try it neutral and if I don't feel it well then I'll try that cue.

 

a) For lateral raises be it with dumbbells, cables etc..., what rep ranges do you use?

 

2. Yeah I guess it's hard to tell without a video, I'll make a new thread for form check for OHP, Squat and anything else.

 

3. On 5a you said "Read this:" but I'm not sure what you were referring too?

 

4. would you count Barbell Glute Bridges/Barbell Hip Thrust as sets for hamstrings or only for glutes?

 

5.

 

a) Lastly I wanted to ask you, since you said a while back you're ~180lb, does that mean you have to eat a lot more than 4000 calories a day to gain any size? I mean because if I'm 153lb and I need 4000 to gain any weight, and you're almost 30lb heavier do you have to eat like 6000 or something?

 

I'm just curious because I'm wondering if at some point I will have to eat like 5000, 6000, or even more than 6k calories per day to still gain weight.

Bamico54
Bamico54 g Ben Amico
23 Post(s)
23 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: September 9, 2016
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

So I have created a new program, and would like to get any suggestions about anything that could be better or fixed, i.e if any muscle groups are skipped, or too little volume/too much volume etc...

These are my stats btw:

  • Lifting consistently for 7ish months
  • 149 lb 5"5 @12-13% bodyfat, started @ 134 with pretty much no muscle.
  • Weakest point is definetly arms, and strongest point is legs but not sure how much that matters since I'm still a beginner
  • Goal: mainly building size but also getting stronger on certain exercises, Bench Press, Overhead Press, Pull-Ups, Deadlifts, Squats etc..

So this is a bit like Scott's PPL, so it's PPL, rest/abs, and repeat (so not 3 days per week but 6 out of every 8 days OR basically Push, Pull, and Legs is 2x per week). Rest days either just rest or an ab workout.

  • The main exercises done with lower reps (6-8) to work a bit more on strength, and then the secondary exercises are a bit higher reps (8-10)
  • Main exercises done first when you have the most energy

Push:

Flat Barbell Bench Press (5 sets of 6-8 reps) *lower reps to work on streng

Standing Barbell Overhead Press (5 sets of 6-8 reps)

Tricep Dips (4 sets of 6-8 reps)

Incline Dumbbell Bench Press (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Cable Lean Away Lateral Raise (4 sets of 12-15 reps) *slightly higher reps for this

Tricep V-bar Push Down (4 sets of 8-10 reps) 

Face Pulls (3 sets of 12-15 reps) *for shoulder health, but I'm not sure if it's necassary since rear delts get trained on a lot of back exercises that I do on pull day like rows and high pulls....

***If I have energy left, 3-5 sets of Dead Hanges (for grip strength) 20-60 sec

Pull:

Pull Ups, 40 reps, as many sets to hit 40, once I can do 15 in a row then will switch to weighted pull ups, 5 sets of 6-8 reps

Conventional Deadlift (5 sets of 8-10 reps) **just starting deadlift so starting off a little lighter to work on form but after a while will switch to 6-8 reps

T-bar Row Neutral Grip (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Lat Pulldown Underhand Grip (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

High Pulls (4 sets 8-10 reps) *Upper back/Rear Delts

Barbell Bicep Curls (4 sets of 6-8 reps)

Standing Dumbbell Hammer Curl (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Legs:

Barbell Squat (5 sets of 6-8 reps)

Romanian Deadlift (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Leg Press (4 sets of 8-10 reps) wide stance

Lying Leg Curl (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Sled Push/Pull (back & forth is 1 set), (2 sets) *finisher

***If I have energy left, 3-5 sets of Dead Hanges (for grip strength) 20-60 sec

Rest/Abs:

Captain's Chair Straight Leg/Weighted Knee Raises (5 sets of 12-15 reps)

Kneeling Cable Crunch (5 sets of 12-15 reps)

Medicine Ball Floor Crunch (3 sets of 12-15 reps)

3-5 sets of Dead Hanges (for grip strength) 20-60 sec

My buddy who did a men's classic physique showed a different style of rep ranges/reintroduced me to them because I want to do more bodybuilding work for the summer. They were 4 sets (which you have) x 12,10,8,8 increasing the weight by how every much you want. Then for certain movements a blood flow set/amrap (as many reps as possible), which I am going to incorporate into my program.

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

1. Okay so IllI try it neutral and if I don't feel it well then I'll try that cue.

 

a) For lateral raises be it with dumbbells, cables etc..., what rep ranges do you use?

 

2. Yeah I guess it's hard to tell without a video, I'll make a new thread for form check for OHP, Squat and anything else.

 

3. On 5a you said "Read this:" but I'm not sure what you were referring too?

 

4. would you count Barbell Glute Bridges/Barbell Hip Thrust as sets for hamstrings or only for glutes?

 

5.

 

a) Lastly I wanted to ask you, since you said a while back you're ~180lb, does that mean you have to eat a lot more than 4000 calories a day to gain any size? I mean because if I'm 153lb and I need 4000 to gain any weight, and you're almost 30lb heavier do you have to eat like 6000 or something?

 

I'm just curious because I'm wondering if at some point I will have to eat like 5000, 6000, or even more than 6k calories per day to still gain weight.

1. Perfect! A general 8-12 rep range if you are going for hypertrophy.

 

2. Sounds good! Make sure you embed the videos by using the video icon along the bar that let's you choose fonts, boldness, italics etc (it's the image with a box and a play button in the middle).

 

3. Oh sorry haha I forgot to link the article. Here it is: https://muscularstrength.com/article/Progressive-Overload-How-To-Keep-Making-Those-GAINS

 

4. I would say mainly glutes, but hamstrings are an accessory for those movements.

 

5. It all depends on metabolism rates, and generally it slows down a bit when you get older. I average about 3500-4000 during my bulks and it works fine for me. But some people do need to go REALLY high. So it's possible, but you won't know until you get there.

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Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Bamico54

My buddy who did a men's classic physique showed a different style of rep ranges/reintroduced me to them because I want to do more bodybuilding work for the summer. They were 4 sets (which you have) x 12,10,8,8 increasing the weight by how every much you want. Then for certain movements a blood flow set/amrap (as many reps as possible), which I am going to incorporate into my program.

Nice @Bamico54! I have actually used a similar rep scheme to that in the past. It definitely works and can be effective! I actually used that kind of method with my Holiday workouts series a few years back. Amazing pumps with those!

 

Also, I haven't forgotten about you.. just still been busy like you wouldn't believe haha.

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Vect0rs
Vect0rs g Ben Unknown
133 Post(s)
133 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

For the squat, should I post the video of me going as low as I can?

 

Also from what angle should I post the videos whether it be squat, deadlift, ohp etc...?

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

For the squat, should I post the video of me going as low as I can?

 

Also from what angle should I post the videos whether it be squat, deadlift, ohp etc...?

Yeah go as low as you can. Maybe a couple of reps to where your think is better to avoid the butt wink as well, so we can see how deep that is.

 

Record from the side. That's the best form view to check back arching etc.

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Vect0rs
Vect0rs g Ben Unknown
133 Post(s)
133 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

Hey Scott hopefully should get the video tomorrow.

 

Btw on Weighted chin ups/pull ups etc.. I know you want to retract your shoulders at the bottom before you pull, but are you keeping them retracted the whole time as you pull yourself up? I see in your video and most others people seem to allow their shoulders to come forward so they sort of unretract as they pull up.

 

No one seems to have the shoulders retracted at the top of the pull up so maybe I was doing that wrong then?

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

Hey Scott hopefully should get the video tomorrow.

 

Btw on Weighted chin ups/pull ups etc.. I know you want to retract your shoulders at the bottom before you pull, but are you keeping them retracted the whole time as you pull yourself up? I see in your video and most others people seem to allow their shoulders to come forward so they sort of unretract as they pull up.

 

No one seems to have the shoulders retracted at the top of the pull up so maybe I was doing that wrong then?

If you want full back engagement, you should still be in a retracted position at the peak contraction of any back movement. It might not be a big deal if you aren't fully fully retracted like you would be on a bench press for example.. but the retraction should still be there.

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Vect0rs
Vect0rs g Ben Unknown
133 Post(s)
133 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

Okay maybe I'll just post a form video for that too, where I do keep retracted and then a second video where I do it like how I see it in videos.

 

Anyway I wanted to start the new thread but the button to start one isn't there?:

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: Vect0rs

Okay maybe I'll just post a form video for that too, where I do keep retracted and then a second video where I do it like how I see it in videos.

 

Anyway I wanted to start the new thread but the button to start one isn't there?:

Try again now.. the 'ADD THREAD' button should be there!

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