Hey guys,

Is getting a wider upper body just a result of muscle growth, or are there specific exercises that really help?

The reason I ask is because I know that I'm getting thicker, but I don't think I am getting much wider. My upper body frame seems consistently slim from my waist to my shoulders. But if I look in the mirror with the side of my body facing the mirror, I have definitely gotten thicker in that sense, but if I look at myself straight on, I don't look as big.

Any comments are appreciated.

Ben

Hi Ben,

posture is defined by skeleton, what you can influence is amount of muscles you add on. Width of upper body, or V shape, is defined mostly by lats, shoulders and narrow waist.

I guess you don't target lats enough, or your technique is weak and insuficient. Can you post some data, like your routine, macros, how long you already train, etc.

BR, Gregor

Yeah man, like Gregor said. The exercises you are doing could be one reason in particular.

Do you do things like wide grip pull-ups or lat-pulldowns?

Thanks for the reply!

I actually don't think it's my lats. I should have specified that it is more so in my shoulder area and upper chest. I don't seem to be getting wider up top. My lats show on the side of my body and what I'm most proud of is probably my back, so I know that's not it. Any other suggestions? I usually train flat dumbell press when doing chest first and incline second. And I do military press or dumbell press for shoulders along with other exercises.

I think my back may be ahead of my press exercises.

Thanks for the reply Joe.

I responded to Gregor about the lats. I don't actually think that's it. So you can see what I said to him. It would have been the same thing I was gonna tell you.

OK I see. In that case it is probably your chest and shoulders that need work, not your back.

How do you typically train your chest and shoulders? E.g. reps and sets?

Incline will hit your upper chest, but do you also do any decline presses? What about dips? Overall chest development will probably help you with width.

As for shoulders, same thing. Try and make sure you aim for overall development of the posterior and anterior deltoids, by doing things like front and lat raises along with your shoulder presses.

Now that I really thought about my routine, I think it is my set count for each muscle group that is the problem.

24 sets of Back/Traps (Not including deadlift, I don't count that as back) - 6 exercises 4 sets

16 sets of Triceps - 4 exercises, 4 sets in two supersets.

^Same for biceps.

9 sets Shoulders - 3 exercises, 3 sets 2-2-4 tempo. Hit each side of delts.

*These work the best.

This is where I'm probably wrong...

12-15 sets on my chest. That should be around 24 since that's what I'm doing for my back, right? Maybe that's why it's lagging?

And I only do decline occasionally.

Ben

The amount of sets could be part of the reason.

For the bigger muscle groups like chest and back, you should aim for between 20-30 sets if you respond to high volume. However, 15-20 sets would work for some people.

Seeing as your back seems to respond to more sets, try adding more volume to your chest routine, and probably the shoulder routine, and see how that goes. After all, it is volume that builds muscle.

Hi Ben,

you said that your "body frame seems consistently slim from my waist to my shoulders". Let's get some basics, anatomy:

Here you can see that major role plays latissimus dorsi (with knowing the anatomy, always with lats are activated also teres major). This muscle(s) define V shape from back and front view. Shoulders add some horizontal width and chest only rounds the whole picture nicely.

Therefore, there is some error in your equation, even if you are doing right exercises.

Regarding on data you provided, you are overkilling your muscles. That's too much. 24 sets are already suitable for whole workout, not just for one muscle group. Please don't tell, you do all back, triceps, biceps and shoulders in one session.

12-15 sets are more than enough for one big muscle group. For instance, bent over row, deadlift and pullup, all 4x8-12 will destroy your back in one workout. That's 12 sets.

16 sets for triceps, biceps and 9 for shoulders are also too much. Quality 4 sets for biceps after before described back "routine" will make your biceps scream.

You do 12-15 sets for chest and 9 for shoulders. Are shoulders such big muscle group as chest and needs almost 1:1 ratio with sets? Think a little bit ;)

Do you support you muscles with enough food? And rest?

Please post your weekly workout schedule and your macros.

PS: your right about deadlift classification. It's leg exercise. Usually high weight and isometric contraction make this exercise also back builder.

BR, Gregor

Improve your Lats, delts and get a small waist.. it will give you an illusion of wide frame. Actually Gregor already covered you.

I believe this has been covered, but building the chest/shoulders will help with "wide frame", exspecially viewed from the front. Fo rme at least, I have noticed my shoulders improving in size with targeting the posterior delts- rope cable pulls (face pulls) have made a noticeable difference. And I don't mean with a littl ebit of weight, I use the high cable station, lay on the floor and use a heavy weight that I can control well- having the biofeedback form the floor helps with postural alignment. Plus, i swear since I have started doing the face pulls, either standing or lying, my bench and dealifts have improved, probably due to better overall posture and shoulder strenth. Just my two cents....