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Saturated Fats vs Poly-Unsaturated Fats

Fat vs Fat. Has the AHA and nutritional science lied to us again?

LifesHarlequin
LifesHarlequin g Joshua Barker
30 Post(s)
30 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

Watched a seminar yesterday from Stan Efferding (Hafthor Bjorsson's nutritionist) where he talks about Vertical Dieting specifically for power lifters and those who have to eat large amounts of calories. Neither of which I am, but he also covered the importance of sleep, ensuring your blood work is done to know where your health is lacking, and choices of macronutrient sources.

 

He is adamant in telling us to ditch chicken and eat lean steak because it is a greater source of micronutrients and the saturated fat content is better for you than soy or grain fed chicken breast. He's also a big proponent of sodium intake (about 600mg per) along with carbohydrates and caffeine (100mg) post workout to aid in rehydration and boosting muscle repair. Most of this I've already heard from Scott's various videos, but there is one thing I've been running around the net trying to confirm and there are some articles to back it up, but I wanted some more opinions.

 

Saturated fat from grass fed beef should be our choice fat with Omega 3's from cold water fish being consumed via Salmon twice a week. According to Stan, and he references a documentary "Oilling of America", the grain industry has forced the wrong idea that saturated fats and the cholesterol associated with red meats is directly linked to heart disease and to use vegetable oils instead for their unsaturated fats. However, the unsaturated fats, his personal hate of Poly-Unsaturated in particular, reduce the levels of cholesterol, and by extension testosterone, that you need in order to get bigger and stronger and have better cardio vascular health. When I double checked this, there is still a lot of articles like WebMD that say the same as we've always heard about fat consumption, but there are a fair few that give saturated fats a fair shake, recommend butter over oils, and give the nod to olive oil while also remembering to mention that olive oil is known to increase body fat.

 

Thoughts?

33 / Military (Navy) / Avid Cyclist (fixie and touring) / Assistant Command Fitness Leader / Currently doing Starting Strength Barbell Training
jmboiardi
jmboiardi p John M Boiardi
2.6K Post(s)
2.6K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: LifesHarlequin

Watched a seminar yesterday from Stan Efferding (Hafthor Bjorsson's nutritionist) where he talks about Vertical Dieting specifically for power lifters and those who have to eat large amounts of calories. Neither of which I am, but he also covered the importance of sleep, ensuring your blood work is done to know where your health is lacking, and choices of macronutrient sources.

 

He is adamant in telling us to ditch chicken and eat lean steak because it is a greater source of micronutrients and the saturated fat content is better for you than soy or grain fed chicken breast. He's also a big proponent of sodium intake (about 600mg per) along with carbohydrates and caffeine (100mg) post workout to aid in rehydration and boosting muscle repair. Most of this I've already heard from Scott's various videos, but there is one thing I've been running around the net trying to confirm and there are some articles to back it up, but I wanted some more opinions.

 

Saturated fat from grass fed beef should be our choice fat with Omega 3's from cold water fish being consumed via Salmon twice a week. According to Stan, and he references a documentary "Oilling of America", the grain industry has forced the wrong idea that saturated fats and the cholesterol associated with red meats is directly linked to heart disease and to use vegetable oils instead for their unsaturated fats. However, the unsaturated fats, his personal hate of Poly-Unsaturated in particular, reduce the levels of cholesterol, and by extension testosterone, that you need in order to get bigger and stronger and have better cardio vascular health. When I double checked this, there is still a lot of articles like WebMD that say the same as we've always heard about fat consumption, but there are a fair few that give saturated fats a fair shake, recommend butter over oils, and give the nod to olive oil while also remembering to mention that olive oil is known to increase body fat.

 

Thoughts?

This is a subject I am very passionate about and have done many years of personal research and I practice everything I discuss. Stan Efferding is correct. The whole fear of saturated fat and cholesterol is from a flawed and de-bunked study done in the 1950's by Ancel Keys and called the "Lipid Hypothesis". You can Google it to get more info as I won't delve into here. The bottom line is he cherry-picked data from a few select countries to support his theory that cholesterol and saturated fat cause heart disease. He was very politicially connected and ambitious and was able to sell this theory to the Federal government. It finally became the dogma you still see and hear today after the McGovern report of the 1970s outlining recommended dietary guidelines for the U.S. population. It is called a "hypothesis" because in over 60 years it has never been proven as fact and has actually been shown to be totally incorrect.

 

The issue in the U.S. today is that American medicine is a BUSINESS first and a health maintenance system second. The U.S. also grows more corn, soy, and wheat than any other country in the world as it is fully subsidized by the U.S. government to keep the costs down. This began under Nixon's head of the USDA named Earl Butz. By basically paying farmers to grow more food than is actually needed, we ensure a large supply of low cost food. This is why our food is full of metabolic poisons like High Fructose Corn Syrup, soybean oil, corn oil, and all the other dangerous poly-unsaturated vegetable oils Efferding refers to because they are very cheap and readily available. These oils are too high in Omega 6 fatty acids which are pro-inflammatory. We need to eat a balanced diet of Omega 3s (anti-inflammatory) and Omega 6s (pro-inflammatory) as they are both critical to health. The ratios should be 1:1 or 3:1 Omega 3 to Omega 6. Because of all these cheap vegetable oils that are used in all processed foods and sold to the public as heart healthy, the American ratio is more like 40:1 Omega 6 to Omega 3. As ALL diseases have a root cause in inflammation, this is one of the key reasons Americans have high levels of heart disease, cancer, dementia, metabolic syndrome, arthritis, etc. The reason this occurs is Big Food is a powerful lobbyist in congress and the key battleground states where all this is grown receive lots of federal farm subsidies so they hold a lot of voting power and influence in Congress.

 

As for cows, Efferding is correct. Cows are RUMINANTS. This means they are meant to eat grass not corn. The meat in the U.S. is crap as it is all corn fed because corn is very cheap due to federal subsidies and grass and grasslands are not. When cows eat corn, it makes them very sick and they die much quicker. They also fatten up faster so they make more money in meat per cow. This is also why they need to be pumped full of antibiotics, hormones, and other chemicals to keep them "healthy" and fat before slaughter. Grass-fed meat does have very high levels of Omega 3. Corn-fed meat has the exact opposite. All the studies saying meat causes cancer and heart disease is based off of people who eat processed and corn-fed beef not natural grass-fed beef. For example, one of the issues with a purely Vegan or vegetarian diet is they lack Omega 3s, Vitamin D, and Vitamin B12 as they can only be obtained thru eating meat, fish, and eggs. Yet we are constantly told these are better eating patterns. How can that be when they lack key nutrients? We eat food to supply ALL the nutrients we need not some. Ancient man didn't eat just plants and then run down to the local GNC to get his B12 and Omega 3 pills.

 

My advice to you is don't look to WebMD or the U.S. government or even a medical doctor for advice and guidance on nutrition. Big Pharma is a powerful group and their number one priority is profits. They have successfully exploited the Lipid Hypothesis to the tune of over 30 Billion a year in Statin drug sales. Lipitor is the most successful drug in the history of man. Viagra is not too far behind. Doctors are influenced by Big Pharma and go to medical schools funded in part by Big Pharma. They are trained to match symptoms to drugs. There is no financial incentive for Big Pharma to embrace food as medicine and educate people on proper nutrition as they can't make money. Saturated fat and cholesterol are critical for health and we die without them. The reason men have low T, metabolic syndrome, muscle wasting, and dementia is because they don't give the brain and testosterone what they need as their key building blocks - saturated fat and cholesterol. Big Pharma wants annuity customers - those that need to take drugs daily. They have Statins for cholesterol, Viagra for E.D., Metaformin for high blood sugar, Androgel for low testosterone, high blood pressure medicines, medicines for mental health issues like depression, etc. These are all caused by a diet too high in processed sugars and man-made fats and devoid of all nutrients and necessary fats of all types. For Big Pharma and the U.S. government, having you take pills everyday for all your ills and putting out dietary recommendations that further promote these disease states thru faulty nutritional recommendations is a cash cow at our health's expense.

 

There are lots of studies out there debunking the claims about saturated fats and cholesterol as unhealthy. You don't see or hear about them unless you make a concerted effort to find them because Big Pharma and Big Food make sure to suppress them - or at least "debunk" them with their own team of scientists and doctors. If you think logically about this, it makes sense. If it ever became common knowledge that everything that was said about saturated fat and cholesterol was wrong, Pfizer et al would be hit with millions of lawsuits and the food industry would be thrown on its head. Humans have been living for million of years eating saturated fat and cholesterol without the need of pharmaceuticals. And for those who claim this is all conspiracy theory, then ask yourself this: Why all of a sudden after millions of years of evolution of the human genome would two essential nutrients for human health - saturated fat and cholesterol - all of a sudden be killing us. The answer is they don't. There is something else in the mix. That something else is industrialized and man-made/engineered food.

 

John

34 years of lifting and nutritional experience and resident "old man" :-) MS Athlete and past Super Hermanite since 2013.
LifesHarlequin
LifesHarlequin g Joshua Barker
30 Post(s)
30 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: October 10, 2017
Posted

Thanks, John.

 

I've been hearing a lot of this lately from not just lifters, but also professional athletes nutritionists. Wife is definitely not going to complain about more grass fed lean steak and butter. And like a lot of things we learn through school, I get to add general nutritional advice from phys ed to the pile of things we've known were flat out wrong from the beginning but teach anyway. I brought up the cholesterol thing to my doctor recently and they still hold onto the old and disproven adages. I'm going to take Stan's advice and see if I can get Navy doctors to do the full blood work for me after the holiday period without too much fuss.

33 / Military (Navy) / Avid Cyclist (fixie and touring) / Assistant Command Fitness Leader / Currently doing Starting Strength Barbell Training
jmboiardi
jmboiardi p John M Boiardi
2.6K Post(s)
2.6K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: LifesHarlequin

Thanks, John.

 

I've been hearing a lot of this lately from not just lifters, but also professional athletes nutritionists. Wife is definitely not going to complain about more grass fed lean steak and butter. And like a lot of things we learn through school, I get to add general nutritional advice from phys ed to the pile of things we've known were flat out wrong from the beginning but teach anyway. I brought up the cholesterol thing to my doctor recently and they still hold onto the old and disproven adages. I'm going to take Stan's advice and see if I can get Navy doctors to do the full blood work for me after the holiday period without too much fuss.

Glad it helped. It makes me so mad how people blindly accept anything the government or a doctor says as gospel truth. I have done the exact opposite of what the AMA, AHA, etc have recommended and at 53 I am healthier than ever and take no meds. My mother and father need them and my genetics are nothing special so I know it is my diet and exercise program that is producing the positive results. I am watching statins and other drugs destroy my father's health and mind but he is stubborn because he goes to Mass General Hospital and all his doctors went to Harvard. If they told him to drink battery acid and gasoline, he would do it without hesitation.

 

I am fortunate that the GPs I have are not pill-pushers and they have all wanted to use me as an example of how healthy eating and exercising can remove the need for 99% of all pharmaceuticals. Old habits are hard to break and when money is being made in heaps sane judgement goes out the window. I feel bad for our military personnel as a lot of those MREs are not optimal for health let alone combat readiness.

 

John

34 years of lifting and nutritional experience and resident "old man" :-) MS Athlete and past Super Hermanite since 2013.
vinnyfindley
vinnyfindley g Vinny Findley
22 Post(s)
22 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: November 11, 2017
Posted

Wow very comprehensive John. I don't trust the government in the least. The best anyone can do is be informed for themselves. I research anything I do to the max. The post I made about whole eggs. One study eggs are good another they are bad and so on and so on. Like you said man has lived long before we arived eating saturated fat and cholesterol. I have to admit I started eating the whole hard boiled egg and after logging it into my excel spread sheet the cholesterol was through the roof. I believe you when you say that it has minimal effect on blood cholesterol but it was shocking just to see it 3 times what I normally was taking in. What is a safe cholesterol level. I'm on Simvastatin. My bad cholesterol was at 248. Doctor said It should be below 200. It will be checked again in February. I'm positive that it will be much lower do to the 1,000% better diet I've been on plus balls to the wall training and will stop taking the Simvastatin. Also on medictaion for triglycerides. I'm not one to run to the drug store but wife insted that I should take the simvastatin to help lower my total.

 

Vinny in little Rhode Island

jmboiardi
jmboiardi p John M Boiardi
2.6K Post(s)
2.6K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: vinnyfindley

Wow very comprehensive John. I don't trust the government in the least. The best anyone can do is be informed for themselves. I research anything I do to the max. The post I made about whole eggs. One study eggs are good another they are bad and so on and so on. Like you said man has lived long before we arived eating saturated fat and cholesterol. I have to admit I started eating the whole hard boiled egg and after logging it into my excel spread sheet the cholesterol was through the roof. I believe you when you say that it has minimal effect on blood cholesterol but it was shocking just to see it 3 times what I normally was taking in. What is a safe cholesterol level. I'm on Simvastatin. My bad cholesterol was at 248. Doctor said It should be below 200. It will be checked again in February. I'm positive that it will be much lower do to the 1,000% better diet I've been on plus balls to the wall training and will stop taking the Simvastatin. Also on medictaion for triglycerides. I'm not one to run to the drug store but wife insted that I should take the simvastatin to help lower my total.

 

Vinny in little Rhode Island

This is a very controversial question. I will give you my opinion on the topic based on my experience and research. I am not a medical professional so take them for what they are worth. The most important numbers to track when it comes to blood lipids and heart health are HDL levels, Triglyceride levels, and the ratio of these 2 to each other. All other numbers are for all intents and purposes usesless.

 

The reason for this is the following:

 

1) Total cholesterol numbers are your LDL + HDL + 1/5th triglyceride and VLDL levels. A person could have high HDL, moderate LDL, and low triglycerides and still have over 200 for total cholesterol. Standard AHA practices is to recommend a statin even though this person has very high HDL (heart protective) and low triglycerides (heart protective) regardless of the LDL amount.

 

2) LDL is an important molecule. When it is not oxidized due to high blood sugar and high triglycerides, it is a large "fluffy" particle. As such, it performs its normal function of bringing cholesterol to all the cells in your body so we can live without issue. When LDL becomes oxidized, it becomes small and hard. It not only is able to carry less cholesterol but when there is damage to the internal lining of your arteries (the endothelium) due to chronic inflammation from high blood sugar levels it causes further damage resulting in artherosclerosis. In this instance, the body recognizes the damage to the endothelium and rushes cholesterol, immune cells, and clotting factors to "patch" the damage as a bursting or leaking artery will cause death. Small, dense LDL particles actually slide under the tears versus patching over them pushing the endothelium inwards and beginning the cascade of events that lead to a blockage. This is impacted by particle SIZE more than particle NUMBERS. Your LDL number does not account for particle SIZE. You could have LDL of 80 but if it is small and dense it is more dangerous to heart health than an LDL number of 180 with normally sized particles. Therefore, unless you ask for a particle size test your LDL number is meaningless in this context.

 

3) The good news is high triglyceride levels have been proven to be indicative of highly oxidized LDL and low HDL which is why triglyceride numbers are more predictive of potential heart disease than LDL numbers alone.

 

Medicines like statins and others to control triglycerides levels just artificially lower them and don't go to the root cause. Couple that with the large amount of side-effects - both mild and severe - these drugs cause they are not the way to go in my opinion. Proper nutrition is a better strategy. I eat lots of healthy fat and cholesterol and my blood lipids are all excellent with high HDL, low triglycerides, and good LDL levels. For me, I would aim for triglycerides under 65 and HDL of at least 60 or higher and that is all I track. I don't care about what the total cholesterol and LDL numbers are for the reasons outlined above and my GP knows to never bring up the term "statin" with me or he will get his walking papers on the spot :-)

 

 

John

34 years of lifting and nutritional experience and resident "old man" :-) MS Athlete and past Super Hermanite since 2013.
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