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  • Posted On: 01-28-19, 11:16 pm (EST) #1

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 28, 2019, 11:16 pm

  • Posted On: 01-28-19, 11:19 pm (EST) #2

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 28, 2019, 11:19 pm

    @scott_herman Here's a few snippets of my form between two different workouts. Squats and a set of Deadlifts. In regards to our convo about APT and my lower back pain

  • Posted On: 01-29-19, 8:49 pm (EST) #3

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 29, 2019, 8:49 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman Here's a few snippets of my form between two different workouts. Squats and a set of Deadlifts. In regards to our convo about APT and my lower back pain

    @iaretyler Your form doesn't look bad. But there does seem to be a slightly excessive arch in your back, which is where that APT is coming into play. You can see it on the last rep in that first clip of you doing squats, where there seems to be a noticable curve in your back.

     

    Your deadlifts look OK. Do they cause back pain on their own? Or it's more a combination of both squatting and deadlifting in the same session?

     

    While you're working on fixing your APT you might need to go a bit lighter with the squats to work on form and get rid of (or at least minimize) that arch, or switch to front squats as an alternative like I mentioned. How long have you been using the APT mobility exercises for?

  • Posted On: 01-29-19, 9:56 pm (EST) #4

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 29, 2019, 9:56 pm
    Posted by: Scott_Herman

    @iaretyler Your form doesn't look bad. But there does seem to be a slightly excessive arch in your back, which is where that APT is coming into play. You can see it on the last rep in that first clip of you doing squats, where there seems to be a noticable curve in your back.

     

    Your deadlifts look OK. Do they cause back pain on their own? Or it's more a combination of both squatting and deadlifting in the same session?

     

    While you're working on fixing your APT you might need to go a bit lighter with the squats to work on form and get rid of (or at least minimize) that arch, or switch to front squats as an alternative like I mentioned. How long have you been using the APT mobility exercises for?

    @scott_herman Thanks for the reply Scott.

     

    Until this past Sunday I thought my back pain was from the combination of squatting and deadlifting in the same session, with squats being the main proprietor. But Sunday on my Full Body A day, I realized that my back tightened up during the deadlifts (does not necessarily hurt to the point that I can't finish). I had to take breaks in between sets and foam roll/stretch in order to finish without much pain. This morning on B day, a similar pain occured with my squats. Today I noticed the pain was slightly different though. For squats, it feels lower almost near my tailbone. For deaflifts, it might be described as more lower back - muscles.

     

    I guess I could drop the weight to just 135, although 175 isn't too too heavy for me. Back when I was starting ATG squats in September I did a deload and started slowly working back up. I've kind of been sticking around 175 for some time now which is starting to get depressing. All my other lifts have been going up except squats because of the pain.

     

     

    I've been doing the APT exercises for probably 2 weeks now. I do them in the morning. While they do loosen things up and remind me to keep my glutes and core tight/activated throughout the day, I find that in the evening things are almost back to where they were before (like when walking home from class I can feel pressure in my lower back). As i type now my back hurts again.

     

    As far as form goes, I feel like I'm getting confused with how to keep my chest up but not have an arch in my back - while also ensuring my hips go past my knees. And for my deadlift, I do think it looks pretty good, but if you have any specific tips I'll take em. Until lately, I've always felt comfortable with the lift as it is usually my best one. It's crazy to me that I'm experiencing all this discomfort while I see other people deadliting and squatting with rounded backs and heavy loads.

     

    On a side note - since this topic is pretty negative - I wanted to mention that over the past few months I still have had really great progress in terms of strength gains and weight. I'm probably the biggest and strongest I have been. And after doing the PPL program for 7 months, I've been excited with these full body workouts to really increase my strength gains on the compound lifts and increase my frequency!

  • Posted On: 01-30-19, 8:56 pm (EST) #5

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 30, 2019, 8:56 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman Thanks for the reply Scott.

     

    Until this past Sunday I thought my back pain was from the combination of squatting and deadlifting in the same session, with squats being the main proprietor. But Sunday on my Full Body A day, I realized that my back tightened up during the deadlifts (does not necessarily hurt to the point that I can't finish). I had to take breaks in between sets and foam roll/stretch in order to finish without much pain. This morning on B day, a similar pain occured with my squats. Today I noticed the pain was slightly different though. For squats, it feels lower almost near my tailbone. For deaflifts, it might be described as more lower back - muscles.

     

    I guess I could drop the weight to just 135, although 175 isn't too too heavy for me. Back when I was starting ATG squats in September I did a deload and started slowly working back up. I've kind of been sticking around 175 for some time now which is starting to get depressing. All my other lifts have been going up except squats because of the pain.

     

     

    I've been doing the APT exercises for probably 2 weeks now. I do them in the morning. While they do loosen things up and remind me to keep my glutes and core tight/activated throughout the day, I find that in the evening things are almost back to where they were before (like when walking home from class I can feel pressure in my lower back). As i type now my back hurts again.

     

    As far as form goes, I feel like I'm getting confused with how to keep my chest up but not have an arch in my back - while also ensuring my hips go past my knees. And for my deadlift, I do think it looks pretty good, but if you have any specific tips I'll take em. Until lately, I've always felt comfortable with the lift as it is usually my best one. It's crazy to me that I'm experiencing all this discomfort while I see other people deadliting and squatting with rounded backs and heavy loads.

     

    On a side note - since this topic is pretty negative - I wanted to mention that over the past few months I still have had really great progress in terms of strength gains and weight. I'm probably the biggest and strongest I have been. And after doing the PPL program for 7 months, I've been excited with these full body workouts to really increase my strength gains on the compound lifts and increase my frequency!

    @iaretyler Well from what you've said and what I've seen in your videos, I'm not sure your form with the exercises is really the problem. There is that slight excessive arch in your back while squatting, but you say that during the day you feel pain in your back? Even just sitting during the day you feel pain? If it's almost constant then there might already be something going on internally more than just APT.

     

    Granted it's only been 2 weeks that you've been doing the exercises and it could take months for things to come right, so it might just be a matter of giving it more time while continuing to do those excercises.

     

    With your squats, one thing that might help that arch is keeping your head neutral. It looks as though you're keeping your head up and tilted to look forward. You can look forward with your eyes, but keep your neck neutral, so you just end up with a straight line running from your head to your lower back. Tucking your chin is a good cue - you don't need to tuck it completely so it's touching your upper chest, but so you could probably fit a tennis ball between your chin and upper chest.

  • Posted On: 01-30-19, 9:38 pm (EST) #6

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 30, 2019, 9:38 pm
    Posted by: Scott_Herman

    @iaretyler Well from what you've said and what I've seen in your videos, I'm not sure your form with the exercises is really the problem. There is that slight excessive arch in your back while squatting, but you say that during the day you feel pain in your back? Even just sitting during the day you feel pain? If it's almost constant then there might already be something going on internally more than just APT.

     

    Granted it's only been 2 weeks that you've been doing the exercises and it could take months for things to come right, so it might just be a matter of giving it more time while continuing to do those excercises.

     

    With your squats, one thing that might help that arch is keeping your head neutral. It looks as though you're keeping your head up and tilted to look forward. You can look forward with your eyes, but keep your neck neutral, so you just end up with a straight line running from your head to your lower back. Tucking your chin is a good cue - you don't need to tuck it completely so it's touching your upper chest, but so you could probably fit a tennis ball between your chin and upper chest.

    Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out tomorrow.

     

    Yeah that's right, its an overall tightness/pain throughout the day. During the day I'll often lean forward (kind of like the APT stretch you do on the bench) and really try to stretch things out which feels good. But yeah, it's been a constant thing lately. Last semester of school I had a few instances where things would get tight from squats I think... But the past 3-4 weeks its been more of a constant pain and tightness. Pain might not be the right word but I'm definitely not comfortable during the day.

     

    You know that one stretch where you lay flat on your back and keep your shoulders touching the ground while turning your hips and legs to one side? That usually feels good too and I usually get a few pops out of it.

     

    I suppose I could just need to stretch things out for a few more weeks. If things persist maybe I'll have to get my back checked out by a doc or something.

  • Posted On: 01-31-19, 9:27 pm (EST) #7

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 31, 2019, 9:27 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out tomorrow.

     

    Yeah that's right, its an overall tightness/pain throughout the day. During the day I'll often lean forward (kind of like the APT stretch you do on the bench) and really try to stretch things out which feels good. But yeah, it's been a constant thing lately. Last semester of school I had a few instances where things would get tight from squats I think... But the past 3-4 weeks its been more of a constant pain and tightness. Pain might not be the right word but I'm definitely not comfortable during the day.

     

    You know that one stretch where you lay flat on your back and keep your shoulders touching the ground while turning your hips and legs to one side? That usually feels good too and I usually get a few pops out of it.

     

    I suppose I could just need to stretch things out for a few more weeks. If things persist maybe I'll have to get my back checked out by a doc or something.

    @iaretyler Yeah I would definitely give it a couple more weeks. If the stretches feel like they are helping at the moment, then doing them for a few more weeks you might notice things start to improve for longer throughout the day, rather than just temporarily. If it only ever works as a temporary fix though and then you have more issues throughout the day, getting it checked might be a good idea.

     

    Make sure though that when you are sitting throughout the day, you do your best to maintain a strong, tight, upright posture. Don't slouch over, that could be putting more stress on your lower back and affect your APT. Think about keeping your core tight, shoulders back and chest up even when sitting. Not so tight that you can't breathe, but tight enough that you know you're holding good posture.

  • Posted On: 01-31-19, 9:40 pm (EST) #8

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    January 31, 2019, 9:40 pm
    Posted by: Scott_Herman

    @iaretyler Yeah I would definitely give it a couple more weeks. If the stretches feel like they are helping at the moment, then doing them for a few more weeks you might notice things start to improve for longer throughout the day, rather than just temporarily. If it only ever works as a temporary fix though and then you have more issues throughout the day, getting it checked might be a good idea.

     

    Make sure though that when you are sitting throughout the day, you do your best to maintain a strong, tight, upright posture. Don't slouch over, that could be putting more stress on your lower back and affect your APT. Think about keeping your core tight, shoulders back and chest up even when sitting. Not so tight that you can't breathe, but tight enough that you know you're holding good posture.

    @scott_herman I'll definitely keep doing them as well as ab workouts on the days I'm not lifting. Sometimes I let my posture go throughout the day so I'll try my best to keep that in check. Thanks for the advice my man, I'll keep you posted in a few weeks how things are going.

  • Posted On: 02-01-19, 11:10 pm (EST) #9

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 1, 2019, 11:10 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman I'll definitely keep doing them as well as ab workouts on the days I'm not lifting. Sometimes I let my posture go throughout the day so I'll try my best to keep that in check. Thanks for the advice my man, I'll keep you posted in a few weeks how things are going.

    @iaretyler happy to help my man! Hopefully in a few weeks I'll be hearing that your APT is getting better and that pain is subsiding!

  • Posted On: 02-04-19, 3:18 pm (EST) #10

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 4, 2019, 3:18 pm

    @scott_herman Hey Scott. Last workout during rack pulls i felt an uncomfortable new pain in between my upper thigh and lower abdomen on the left side. The spot where you get "V" cut abs, above my junk. It wasn't unbearable and I only felt it on the negative at the bottom of the movement. Today I did my heavy 5x5 Deadlifts with 295, and I felt this pain again on the bottom portion of the lift. I've never really felt this before and I'm wondering if this is due to the APT stretches I've been doing. I do them before I lift. I'm scared its the beginnings of a hernia or something.

     

    Wondering if you have ever experienced this before and what you think it might be. Am I "pulling" too much and not pushing enough with my feet maybe? I'm not sure but maybe you'll have some input.

     

    Didn't think I'd be back here so soon, but it was a bit alarming to me. Sorry to bug!

  • Posted On: 02-04-19, 9:21 pm (EST) #11

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 4, 2019, 9:21 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman Hey Scott. Last workout during rack pulls i felt an uncomfortable new pain in between my upper thigh and lower abdomen on the left side. The spot where you get "V" cut abs, above my junk. It wasn't unbearable and I only felt it on the negative at the bottom of the movement. Today I did my heavy 5x5 Deadlifts with 295, and I felt this pain again on the bottom portion of the lift. I've never really felt this before and I'm wondering if this is due to the APT stretches I've been doing. I do them before I lift. I'm scared its the beginnings of a hernia or something.

     

    Wondering if you have ever experienced this before and what you think it might be. Am I "pulling" too much and not pushing enough with my feet maybe? I'm not sure but maybe you'll have some input.

     

    Didn't think I'd be back here so soon, but it was a bit alarming to me. Sorry to bug!

    @iaretyler I'm not sure it would be because of the APT stretches - if anything they would make things looser and help to avoid injuries. I haven't really ever dealt with pain in that area so I can't say for sure what it might be. Odd that it's only occuring on the negative of your rack pulls and deadlifts, which suggests that it's not really to do with whether you're pulling or pushing off the ground.

     

    Does it hurt at any other time, on any other lift? Does it hurt to touch?

  • Posted On: 02-04-19, 9:32 pm (EST) #12

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 4, 2019, 9:32 pm
    Posted by: Scott_Herman

    @iaretyler I'm not sure it would be because of the APT stretches - if anything they would make things looser and help to avoid injuries. I haven't really ever dealt with pain in that area so I can't say for sure what it might be. Odd that it's only occuring on the negative of your rack pulls and deadlifts, which suggests that it's not really to do with whether you're pulling or pushing off the ground.

     

    Does it hurt at any other time, on any other lift? Does it hurt to touch?

    @scott_herman No, there's no pain when I touch around that area and there's no visible bulge. I've only ever felt it during deadlifts and rack pulls and Saturday's workout was the first time it happened.

  • Posted On: 02-05-19, 4:07 pm (EST) #13

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 5, 2019, 4:07 pm

    Not sure if I should do rack pulls tomorrow or not 😕 

  • Posted On: 02-05-19, 10:13 pm (EST) #14

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 5, 2019, 10:13 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman No, there's no pain when I touch around that area and there's no visible bulge. I've only ever felt it during deadlifts and rack pulls and Saturday's workout was the first time it happened.

    @iaretyler In that case, I suggest you go ahead and rack pull again tomorrow. I'm not sure how many warm-up sets you're currently doing, but try to make sure you do at least 5 warm-up sets tomorrow, along with your APT warm-ups in-between sets. If you notice you start to get pain during your warm-ups, don't continue doing your rack pulls.

     

    It could be something to do with your sartorius being tight. Try foam rolling around your upper / inner thigh as well. If all else fails, see a massage therapist.

  • Posted On: 02-05-19, 11:03 pm (EST) #15

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 5, 2019, 11:03 pm
    Posted by: Scott_Herman

    @iaretyler In that case, I suggest you go ahead and rack pull again tomorrow. I'm not sure how many warm-up sets you're currently doing, but try to make sure you do at least 5 warm-up sets tomorrow, along with your APT warm-ups in-between sets. If you notice you start to get pain during your warm-ups, don't continue doing your rack pulls.

     

    It could be something to do with your sartorius being tight. Try foam rolling around your upper / inner thigh as well. If all else fails, see a massage therapist.

    @scott_herman Cool thank you for easing my mind I was really worried about it. Previously I was only doing 3 warmup sets but I'll do 5+ now. And I'll continue to stretch in between sets/foam roll that area. Hopefully nothing else acts up. The back hasn't been hurting much the past few days too so that's good !

  • Posted On: 02-06-19, 9:44 pm (EST) #16

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 6, 2019, 9:44 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman Cool thank you for easing my mind I was really worried about it. Previously I was only doing 3 warmup sets but I'll do 5+ now. And I'll continue to stretch in between sets/foam roll that area. Hopefully nothing else acts up. The back hasn't been hurting much the past few days too so that's good !

    @iaretyler doing 5 warm-up sets should be sufficient, no need to do more than that unless you are warming up to a 1RM.

     

    Glad to hear your back hasn't been hurting lately! Hopefully that is a sign that the APT exercises are working and everything is on the mend! 🏋 

  • Posted On: 02-07-19, 3:38 pm (EST) #17

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 7, 2019, 3:38 pm
    Posted by: Scott_Herman

    @iaretyler doing 5 warm-up sets should be sufficient, no need to do more than that unless you are warming up to a 1RM.

     

    Glad to hear your back hasn't been hurting lately! Hopefully that is a sign that the APT exercises are working and everything is on the mend! 🏋 

    @scott_herman Thought I'd give you an update. Yesterday I took my time with the rack pulls and did 5 sets of warmups, with about 50+ pounds between sets. Overall, the pain was not there like it was the other day. A few times I felt it start up on the first rep of a set - put the bar down, really focused on my form and finished the set with no pain. Did the stretching in between sets too. So yeah it probably was my hip flexors acting up. Thanks for the help.

  • Posted On: 02-07-19, 10:04 pm (EST) #18

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    February 7, 2019, 10:04 pm
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman Thought I'd give you an update. Yesterday I took my time with the rack pulls and did 5 sets of warmups, with about 50+ pounds between sets. Overall, the pain was not there like it was the other day. A few times I felt it start up on the first rep of a set - put the bar down, really focused on my form and finished the set with no pain. Did the stretching in between sets too. So yeah it probably was my hip flexors acting up. Thanks for the help.

    @iaretyler So glad to hear that man! Hopefully you'll be lifting completely pain free in no time!

  • Posted On: 04-08-19, 3:00 pm (EDT) #19

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    April 8, 2019, 3:00 pm

    @scott_herman Whats up Scott. I've been working on my deadlift and squat for a while now since we last spoke. Since ATG high bar was hurting my back, I've tried switching to a more low bar/rippetoe type of squat. It doesn't hurt my back nearly as much, however there is a slight forward lean with the bar path as it is not exactly straight vertical. Do you have any idea why? I think it puts unecessary stress on my lower back.

     

    Squat vid:

     

    With my deadlift, its been going really well! I think I'm on path to hit my deadlift goal of 405 by the end of the school year. But I wanted to post these two videos here for you to check something out. Within a week, I was able to add ten pounds to my 5x5, from 315 to 325 beltless by changing my form a bit. I put my feet in more narrow, with the bar directly over mid foot, and drop my butt down before the rep and pull the bar up my body. This feels pretty good, however after looking at my video of it on my last set, I've noticed I hyperextend my back quite a bit as opposed to my previous form with 315 lbs. Is this bad and will it catch up with me? Do you have a cue that would straighten my back more? Or maybe its not a problem since I feel stronger with it.

     

    Nevertheless heres the video with a straighter back and less weight:

     

    And heres the vid from this morning where I pulled 325 for 5x5 but with some hyperextension:

     

  • Posted On: 04-08-19, 3:06 pm (EDT) #20

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    April 8, 2019, 3:06 pm

    Oh and my APT still kinda sucks but I'm working with it 😅 

  • Posted On: 05-20-19, 12:49 am (EDT) #21

    Squat/Deadlift Form Update / APT

    May 20, 2019, 12:49 am
    Posted by: iaretyler

    @scott_herman Whats up Scott. I've been working on my deadlift and squat for a while now since we last spoke. Since ATG high bar was hurting my back, I've tried switching to a more low bar/rippetoe type of squat. It doesn't hurt my back nearly as much, however there is a slight forward lean with the bar path as it is not exactly straight vertical. Do you have any idea why? I think it puts unecessary stress on my lower back.

     

    Squat vid:

     

    With my deadlift, its been going really well! I think I'm on path to hit my deadlift goal of 405 by the end of the school year. But I wanted to post these two videos here for you to check something out. Within a week, I was able to add ten pounds to my 5x5, from 315 to 325 beltless by changing my form a bit. I put my feet in more narrow, with the bar directly over mid foot, and drop my butt down before the rep and pull the bar up my body. This feels pretty good, however after looking at my video of it on my last set, I've noticed I hyperextend my back quite a bit as opposed to my previous form with 315 lbs. Is this bad and will it catch up with me? Do you have a cue that would straighten my back more? Or maybe its not a problem since I feel stronger with it.

     

    Nevertheless heres the video with a straighter back and less weight:

     

    And heres the vid from this morning where I pulled 325 for 5x5 but with some hyperextension:

     

    @iaretyler Your squat form actually looks good. You will always have a slight forward lean when you're doing low bar, simply because of where you have to place the bar across your back. To me it looks like the bar path itself is pretty much straight up and down.

     

    And for your deadlift, I didn't actually think you were hyper-extending much at the lockout at all. It is hard to tell because of the camera angle (the plates kind of block the view of your back once you lift the weight up) but for the most part, it seems like you were simply squeezing your glutes through at the top. I have seen a lot worse hyper-extension.

     

    If anything, that's probably just your APT and it probably only looks different to your other video because you aren't wearing a belt.

     

    Also, I embedded your videos into your original post 😁 

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