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Should I start cutting?

When should I start cutting? Too early?

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RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted

Hey nation,

So I have been lifting for about two and a half years. I am 21 years old, 204 lbs, and about 6'3" tall, roughly 12% bodyfat right now. I ran track in high school, and decided in college to totally change my training and sports. I was playing football, so i started weight training. At first, I focused strictly on power lifting. I am naturally a tall lean build, and it took a long time for me to put on any muscle mass. So I trained and basically bulked fairly cleanly for about 2 years. I changed my training style to a more bodybuilding oriented approach about 8 months ago when I was done playing football. In the past two and a half years, I, have put on about 30 pounds of mostly lean muscle mass. Along with that mass I naturally put on some fat as well. When I changed to bodybuilding I started counting my macros. I cut down on my carbs, and lost some fat. but I still have some around my hips area and on my stomach as well. I can still see the outline of my abs but I would like to cut down and get shredded now that I have gained some muscle mass. I lift heavy 6 days a week. based on my activity level and my goal to gain muscle, I have been consuming around 3200 calories a day. My split is about 125 grams of fat 180 to 200 grams of carbohydrates, and about 350 grams of protein which is difficult to get that much protein. I have been in a calorie surplus in efforts to gain muscle but now I feel like I am just starting to store more fat and I want to cut now.I do about two 15 minutes sessions of high intensity cardio every week. I hit my main compounds lifts about twice a week. My training style that I have had the most success with utilizes a high volume style of lifting. I would like to drop a good bit of body fat and get down to 7-8%, I am about 12% right now I think. I want to be able to see more definition overall and get shredded so my abs show through more clearly. In order to lose fat I need to be in a calorie deficit correct? In order to do that I am worried that I will lose muscle mass if I cut down on body fat. If I recalculate my macros to a lower calorie level, should I just adjust my macro split to be the same percentages just based off of a different calorie number? My goal is to get shredded, and then continue to make strength and muscle gains while maintaining a low body fat percentage from that point on like Scott has been able to do for many years. Is it too early for me to cut? Will it set me back with my gains, or will I continue to be able to gain muscle and stay lean at the same time? I would love to get your input as well Scott, and give me some guidance to cutting without losing all my muscle and strength gains. Thanks nation!

 

AnabolicAliens
AnabolicAliens g Anabolic Aliens
36 Post(s)
36 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: January 1, 2015
Posted

Hey Rob,

 

Don't worry so much about numbers (bodyfat%, weight, etc.) , we all get so hooked on the way things sound. Take a look in the mirror or at some photos and decide if the way you look is the way you want to look. My advice is to get as lean as you want to be, and then get into a lean mass phase. But if you are going to cut, be in a small deficit (definitely not more than -1lb per week).

 

Also, from my nutritional science background, as a natural athlete, your protein intake is too high. Your body will use that excess protein for energy consumption instead of protein synthesis. Eating more carbs will keep you sharper, and provide you with more energy to fuel you through the day and your workouts.

Aim for roughly 1g protein per pound of bodyweight. This is a good estimate for anyone.

 

Play around with your carb and fat numbers a little to find out what works best for your body.

 

We all tend to overthink things! Me included!

 

Keep up the hard work, train hard, eat healthy.

 

-Eric

JoeHurricane
JoeHurricane p Jordan Matthews
1.5K Post(s)
1.5K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: December 12, 2013
Posted
Posted By: RobRock

Hey nation,

So I have been lifting for about two and a half years. I am 21 years old, 204 lbs, and about 6'3" tall, roughly 12% bodyfat right now. I ran track in high school, and decided in college to totally change my training and sports. I was playing football, so i started weight training. At first, I focused strictly on power lifting. I am naturally a tall lean build, and it took a long time for me to put on any muscle mass. So I trained and basically bulked fairly cleanly for about 2 years. I changed my training style to a more bodybuilding oriented approach about 8 months ago when I was done playing football. In the past two and a half years, I, have put on about 30 pounds of mostly lean muscle mass. Along with that mass I naturally put on some fat as well. When I changed to bodybuilding I started counting my macros. I cut down on my carbs, and lost some fat. but I still have some around my hips area and on my stomach as well. I can still see the outline of my abs but I would like to cut down and get shredded now that I have gained some muscle mass. I lift heavy 6 days a week. based on my activity level and my goal to gain muscle, I have been consuming around 3200 calories a day. My split is about 125 grams of fat 180 to 200 grams of carbohydrates, and about 350 grams of protein which is difficult to get that much protein. I have been in a calorie surplus in efforts to gain muscle but now I feel like I am just starting to store more fat and I want to cut now.I do about two 15 minutes sessions of high intensity cardio every week. I hit my main compounds lifts about twice a week. My training style that I have had the most success with utilizes a high volume style of lifting. I would like to drop a good bit of body fat and get down to 7-8%, I am about 12% right now I think. I want to be able to see more definition overall and get shredded so my abs show through more clearly. In order to lose fat I need to be in a calorie deficit correct? In order to do that I am worried that I will lose muscle mass if I cut down on body fat. If I recalculate my macros to a lower calorie level, should I just adjust my macro split to be the same percentages just based off of a different calorie number? My goal is to get shredded, and then continue to make strength and muscle gains while maintaining a low body fat percentage from that point on like Scott has been able to do for many years. Is it too early for me to cut? Will it set me back with my gains, or will I continue to be able to gain muscle and stay lean at the same time? I would love to get your input as well Scott, and give me some guidance to cutting without losing all my muscle and strength gains. Thanks nation!

 

I agree with @AnabolicAliens.

 

If you want to cut, yeah, go for a caloric deficit. What is your current BMR? I'm guessing you are in a surplus at the moment, so you will want to drop down your intake a bit below 3000 calories.

Jordan

SHF Athlete MS Athlete Partial Fitness YouTuber
RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: JoeHurricane

I agree with @AnabolicAliens.

 

If you want to cut, yeah, go for a caloric deficit. What is your current BMR? I'm guessing you are in a surplus at the moment, so you will want to drop down your intake a bit below 3000 calories.

Jordan

Jordan,

Average daily bmr is 2,850 calories

RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: AnabolicAliens

Hey Rob,

 

Don't worry so much about numbers (bodyfat%, weight, etc.) , we all get so hooked on the way things sound. Take a look in the mirror or at some photos and decide if the way you look is the way you want to look. My advice is to get as lean as you want to be, and then get into a lean mass phase. But if you are going to cut, be in a small deficit (definitely not more than -1lb per week).

 

Also, from my nutritional science background, as a natural athlete, your protein intake is too high. Your body will use that excess protein for energy consumption instead of protein synthesis. Eating more carbs will keep you sharper, and provide you with more energy to fuel you through the day and your workouts.

Aim for roughly 1g protein per pound of bodyweight. This is a good estimate for anyone.

 

Play around with your carb and fat numbers a little to find out what works best for your body.

 

We all tend to overthink things! Me included!

 

Keep up the hard work, train hard, eat healthy.

 

-Eric

Thanks for the response Eric! I understand what you are saying. It isn't the numbers so much, I'm proud of the success I've had in gaining strength and mass. I went from being a stick weighing 175 lbs to now weighing about 205 in two years, from working hard and eating lol. Right now I'm just looking to cut. The problem is, I often don't even hit that protein goal, I'll be short by 60 grams or so, which means I'm not quite hitting the 3200 calorie goal sometimes. So if I'm not hitting that goal every day, does that mean my calories are still too high, even when I'm below the 3200 mark? And if I raise my carbs, I'll just store more fat right? When I originally cut down on carbs, I lost some fat, but then my muscle gain stalled out so I raised it to 180-200 grams per day. Right now I'm just confused about what my macro split should be because I'm not having the success I want to have in terms of fat loss. I'm a hard gainer when it comes to muslce, but I am slowly getting bigger and stronger. I just need some straight coaching for my nutrition split I think.

RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: AnabolicAliens

Hey Rob,

 

Don't worry so much about numbers (bodyfat%, weight, etc.) , we all get so hooked on the way things sound. Take a look in the mirror or at some photos and decide if the way you look is the way you want to look. My advice is to get as lean as you want to be, and then get into a lean mass phase. But if you are going to cut, be in a small deficit (definitely not more than -1lb per week).

 

Also, from my nutritional science background, as a natural athlete, your protein intake is too high. Your body will use that excess protein for energy consumption instead of protein synthesis. Eating more carbs will keep you sharper, and provide you with more energy to fuel you through the day and your workouts.

Aim for roughly 1g protein per pound of bodyweight. This is a good estimate for anyone.

 

Play around with your carb and fat numbers a little to find out what works best for your body.

 

We all tend to overthink things! Me included!

 

Keep up the hard work, train hard, eat healthy.

 

-Eric

Also, if I was going to go for a 1 lb per week loss, how would I adjust macros for that? Would I still be dropping calories by 250-500 per day?

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: RobRock

Also, if I was going to go for a 1 lb per week loss, how would I adjust macros for that? Would I still be dropping calories by 250-500 per day?

Yeah, that would work for sure.

 

For me to maintain my lean gains, I do the same thing. I stay in a surplus of about 500 calories a day and I do 2 - 3 days of 15 - 20 minutes of HIIT cardio

 

1 minute jog

2 minute run

repeat

 

Like @anabolicaliens said, the numbers are important but look in the mirror and be satisfied with what you see. Arouns 250 - 280 grams of protein max should be sufficient as well.

 

Are you having a hard time finding quality protein sources other than shakes?

Need 1 on 1 coaching? Send me a direct message to learn more!
RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: Scott_Herman

Yeah, that would work for sure.

 

For me to maintain my lean gains, I do the same thing. I stay in a surplus of about 500 calories a day and I do 2 - 3 days of 15 - 20 minutes of HIIT cardio

 

1 minute jog

2 minute run

repeat

 

Like @anabolicaliens said, the numbers are important but look in the mirror and be satisfied with what you see. Arouns 250 - 280 grams of protein max should be sufficient as well.

 

Are you having a hard time finding quality protein sources other than shakes?

Sometimes I have a hard time with finding other good sources of proteinn. Sometimes I just don't have enough meat in the freezer, or I haven't had time to make it. But, I have recently, in the past couple days, found an excellent source of protein. I'll post it on your wall since I think you'd like it Scott! So, I should drop calories 250-500 grams per day. Get 280 grams or so of protein, have about .5 grams of fat per pound of bodyweight, and fill the rest of my macros with carbs, correct? Would you say it's accurate that carbs don't make you store fat, but excess calories make you store fat? Thanks for the response brother!

RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: Scott_Herman

Yeah, that would work for sure.

 

For me to maintain my lean gains, I do the same thing. I stay in a surplus of about 500 calories a day and I do 2 - 3 days of 15 - 20 minutes of HIIT cardio

 

1 minute jog

2 minute run

repeat

 

Like @anabolicaliens said, the numbers are important but look in the mirror and be satisfied with what you see. Arouns 250 - 280 grams of protein max should be sufficient as well.

 

Are you having a hard time finding quality protein sources other than shakes?

Update!

So I've taken all this advice into account, and recalculated my macros to cut.
Average daily BMR is 3,100 calories.
BF% is about 12% I think.

Weight: 203 lbs

Age:21

I have dropped my calories from 3,200 to 2,800. That is 300 calories less than my average daily BMR. Is this too drastic? Is it enough of a reduction?
Macros Split:

PROTEIN: 280 grams

FAT: 100 grams
CARBS: 195 grams

 

@Scott_Herman @AnabolicAliens how does this look based on our discussion? Thanks guys!

AnabolicAliens
AnabolicAliens g Anabolic Aliens
36 Post(s)
36 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: January 1, 2015
Posted

I Still think you could eat a little bit less protein and more carbohydrates.

Note: Everybody is different, so this will depend on the person.

Me: Currently eating over 300g carbohydrates in a cut. I have a very active work environment and workout hard 5-6 days per week. I am only 5'9" and 168 pounds.

 

The carbs will keep you feeling great mentally and physically.

 

Try adding more carbohydrates. Trade 50g between protein and carbs.

Also, I would aim to lose a pound per week. So eating 2,600 calories roughly. Then readjust your macros.

If you still are not losing weight after this, cut calories another 250/day and readjust your macros.

 

Good luck! Just my opinion! I do have a nutritional science backround :) Graduating next year!

 

-Eric

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: AnabolicAliens

I Still think you could eat a little bit less protein and more carbohydrates.

Note: Everybody is different, so this will depend on the person.

Me: Currently eating over 300g carbohydrates in a cut. I have a very active work environment and workout hard 5-6 days per week. I am only 5'9" and 168 pounds.

 

The carbs will keep you feeling great mentally and physically.

 

Try adding more carbohydrates. Trade 50g between protein and carbs.

Also, I would aim to lose a pound per week. So eating 2,600 calories roughly. Then readjust your macros.

If you still are not losing weight after this, cut calories another 250/day and readjust your macros.

 

Good luck! Just my opinion! I do have a nutritional science backround :) Graduating next year!

 

-Eric

Looks good to me @RobRock, but @AnabolicAliens brings up some good points.

 

Try your way for a few weeks and see how you feel and how the gains look. Then, come back and let us know or make some adjustments!

Need 1 on 1 coaching? Send me a direct message to learn more!
RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: Scott_Herman

Looks good to me @RobRock, but @AnabolicAliens brings up some good points.

 

Try your way for a few weeks and see how you feel and how the gains look. Then, come back and let us know or make some adjustments!

Will do Scott. I'll see how this works, how I feel and look and then readjust if necessary. thanks so much for all your help Scott! You are one of a kind in the fitness industry man, we all appreciate everything you do so much! #HTH #SHF

RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: AnabolicAliens

I Still think you could eat a little bit less protein and more carbohydrates.

Note: Everybody is different, so this will depend on the person.

Me: Currently eating over 300g carbohydrates in a cut. I have a very active work environment and workout hard 5-6 days per week. I am only 5'9" and 168 pounds.

 

The carbs will keep you feeling great mentally and physically.

 

Try adding more carbohydrates. Trade 50g between protein and carbs.

Also, I would aim to lose a pound per week. So eating 2,600 calories roughly. Then readjust your macros.

If you still are not losing weight after this, cut calories another 250/day and readjust your macros.

 

Good luck! Just my opinion! I do have a nutritional science backround :) Graduating next year!

 

-Eric

Sounds like a good idea Eric. I'll try this split for a couple weeks, then see where I am looking and feeling and adjust my split and calories if necessary. I definitely felt super flat when I had my carbs really low a while back, so I think keeping them fairly high is a good idea. I have noticed a lot of growth with my delts lately, which is a huge victory for me because my legs and delts are a bitch to grow! Lower body strength is improving too, I saw you liked my 465 lb rack pull PR on Instagram haha. Anyways, thanks for all your help brotha! I will post in this forum as time goes on about how my cut is going and how the split is evolving. Stay Anabolic my friend

AnabolicAliens
AnabolicAliens g Anabolic Aliens
36 Post(s)
36 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: January 1, 2015
Posted

Keep me posted bro!

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: RobRock

Will do Scott. I'll see how this works, how I feel and look and then readjust if necessary. thanks so much for all your help Scott! You are one of a kind in the fitness industry man, we all appreciate everything you do so much! #HTH #SHF

Thanks man! Means a lot!!

 

Just happy you are getting the help and support you need! #HTH

Need 1 on 1 coaching? Send me a direct message to learn more!
RobRock
RobRock g Robert Hines
19 Post(s)
19 Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: September 9, 2012
Posted
Posted By: Scott_Herman

Thanks man! Means a lot!!

 

Just happy you are getting the help and support you need! #HTH

All right so I did my split for two weeks, leaned out just a little. Dropping to the full 500 calories below my bmr and readjusting my macros.
PROTEIN: 230 grams
Carbs: 220 grams

FAT: 90 grams

 

Thoughts @scott_herman @anabolicaliens

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